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Can leading a camporee, hosted by a Troop, (and 4 months preparation leading up to it, count as a Position of Responsibility for a Scout?

Can leading a camporee, hosted by a Troop, (and 4 months preparation leading up to it, count as a Position of Responsibility for a Scout?

Leadership projects, approved by the Scoutmaster, are permitted to satisfy PoR requirements for Star and Life. They can not satisfy the PoR requirement for Eagle. The handbook verbiage is pretty clear on that. It doesn’t say that a Scoutmaster must approve any leadership project as an alternative to holding a PoR.

Generally speaking, if a scout wants to use a project in lieu of holding a PoR to satisfy the requirement, I recommend that he or she approach the Scoutmaster for general acceptability, then work out a detailed plan of what the Scoutmaster will expect in terms of action by the scout as part of that role in order to accept it in lieu of holding a PoR.

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In my Troop “No” if just leading. Total Planning and leading then perhaps. Had A Scout do this for a Wilderness Survival Campout and he worked with a former SM for a good period of time to get it worked out.

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Like any PoR, being a figurehead wouldn’t (shouldn’t?) count. It’s the four months of prep work that brings it to the level of an SM-approved service project.

In short, the answer lies in the SM. It says, SM Approved project. Thus is it completely up to the SM. For this SM, it would depend on the totality of what this enticed. If this mean the scout was the MC - no. If the scout was heavily involved in the planning and coordination than yes. I would expect more for Life then for Star.

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Since a PoR must be held for 4 months for Star and 6 months for Life, I guess this is technically correct. But, we all know that for some scouts their really challenging PoR comes to them as a 1st class scout, and the easier PoR (at least for that scout) comes once they’ve earned Star. For me, being a PL was far more demanding than when I later became an SPL/ASPL.

Generally, I see PoRs as tools that extend the patrol method. There’s a job to do, so somebody’s got to do it. In our troop, we try to expect more from older boys in any given PoR than we do from younger boys in any given PoR. But, age doesn’t always map to rank advancement.

I see service projects as a tools that extend the leadership development method, so if a scout does really well on the first one, it kind of makes sense to ask him to do a more challenging one the second time around (regardless if if he’s doing it for advancing the next rank). But, maybe the scout barely pulled off the last one. It might be a good idea to not throw down a more difficult challenge, but rather, review what went well, what didn’t go so well, and what the scout would like to do differently, and give him a very similar project where the scout can concretely apply lessons learned.

In my experience, however, most scouts find spearheading service projects to be such a challenge that they rarely ask to do them for either Star or Life. In my troop, given the option, most will wait to be appointed to a PoR if they don’t have one already. Needless to say, we haven’t assigned a lot of service projects to be able to tell what to expect from a given age at a given rank.

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It doesn’t surprise me a bit that you found PL to be a harder job than when you “moved up.” You had some experience to help and you were growing constantly.

Personally I would expect that scouts get better at providing leadership no matter what their position is. Such is the natural outcome of the program.

At this point, it is all hypothetical to me. But if one of my scouts did come to me with such a request I would start with talking to the scout. I would then get with the adult leader to see that the scout would contribute but not be setup for massive failure. (Some amount of failure is good, but it could easily get out of hand when your dealing with an entire district worth of scouts.)

Honestly, I think spearheading projects could be a great avenue for leadership development. I am sure that is the point of the Eagle Project. A huge growth moment for me came about when discussing my project in the BoR. I saw the flops in the projects. My reviewers saw that I delegated to others to get past obstacles. (I had three cases of “That isn’t going to work as planned,” all solved through the ingenuity of scouts there to assist me.)

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Could be. But honestly, my troop leaned heavily on the PLs. They were responsible for coming up with the activities and sorting out schedules, mapping hikes, getting us un-lost, fed, etc …
The hardest thing about being SPL was reading the SM’s handwriting. He never made announcements himself. We’d have to read them from the troop notebook and his cursive was terrible. We all had a riot picking on SPLs who seemed to be illiterate … until we were in the “hot seat!” By that time, I had learned to make presentations from note-cards, so I didn’t feel the pressure to read word for word. The rest of the job really felt like standing at the head of the field, filling out rosters, following along on a hike, and being a big brother to homesick scouts.
So in my troop, in order of time consumed, it was PL, QM, Librarian, Scribe/Historian/Treasurer, SPL, ASPL, JASM. We’re trying to make that so with the leaders of our current troop.

We don’t offer service projects in lieu of PoR’s to every scout. Only to those who look like they might have a hard time meeting the week-in week-out demands of a PoR. Sometimes that’s a younger scout who would benefit from a circumscribed task to build confidence, and sometimes it’s an older scout whose involvement in O/A or a Crew or another extracurricular would make holding a PoR little more than marking time – unless that scout used some aspect of the extracurricular in a project that improved the life of the troop.

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