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Can someone point me to the official policy change that made all adult leaders committee members?

It’s my understand that this change was recent, and effected Cub scouts, but not scouts BSA. Den leaders, Cub masters and ACMs are not automatically committee members. Can anybody show me where this policy change is actually stated in writing?

I could have sworn I read it in a guide for scouting. org/filestore, but for the life of me, I can’t find it now.

Any help is appreciated.

Recommend you ask this question of the person who told you it was the policy of BSA. I do not believe it is correct. The duties of the Pack Committee and the direct contact leadership are separate and distinct for a reason.
https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/how-cub-scouting-is-organized/ gives an overview of pack organization. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-240.pdf gives additional details and points out the specific duties of the pack committee.

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Chartered Org. Reps. are not automatically members of the Pack Committee (although they can dual register as Committee Chair or a Committee Member).

Adults registered as Unit Scouter Reserve or Unit College Scouter Reserve are also not members of the Pack Committee.

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I have never heard such a policy either. Now, your pack may choose to allow all registered leaders to vote at committee meetings, which is a slightly different thing.

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@JenniferOlinger @jacobfetzer

Let me rephrase and be more specific. What i had learned was that Den leaders, assistant den leaders, the Cubmaster, and assistant Cubmaster, were all automatically considered committee members. I also thought I had read this spelled out explicitly, in particular in regard to the distinction with the Cubmaster because this is different than in scouts BSA where the scoutmaster is specifically considered an advisor to the committee, but not a member. I thought I had not only been told this, but also read it in a recent PDF from scouting.org.

On top of that, when i did my online training for den leader, the system prompted me to also take the trainings for committee members, which seemed to back up my understand of the policy.

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I believe that I’ve read this from multiple course, including directly from scouting.org, and that this was a recent policy change. I’m trying to run down exactly where it’s spelled out so it’s not a guessing game.

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This is the closest I’ve been able to find:

Pack Committee
Made up of parents, leaders, and other caring adults the pack committee works to support den leaders and the cubmaster.

https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/how-cub-scouting-is-organized/

PACK COMMITTEE MEETINGS
Most Pack Committees will meet at least once a month. When and where the meetings are held is up to the Pack Committee Chair and that best meets the needs of the members of the committee.

At the committee meeting reports from the Cubmaster, Den Leaders, Treasurer and others help keep everyone informed.

https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/how-cub-scouting-is-organized/cub-scout-pack-committee/

To me, this reads like Cubmasters and Den Leaders attend Committee Meetings to give reports, but this doesn’t make them a member of the Pack Committee. I have not heard of a recent policy change, but maybe it hasn’t been announced yet.

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@JenniferOlinger

I found a reference from May 2019.

From the Cub Scout Position Specific Training Instructor Syllabus. Find at https://www.scouting.org/training/adult/, or specifically the link for the PDF is
https://i9peu1ikn3a16vg4e45rqi17-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Cub-Scout-Leader-Training-Facilitator-Guide.pdf

Scroll down to page 109. It’s the section on the pack committee. It’s asks the question, “Who makes up the pack committee?”, and answers it:

Pack committee members are:
• Pack committee chair
• Cubmaster and assistant Cubmasters
• Chartered organization representative
• Den leaders and assistant den leaders
• New member coordinator
• Treasurer
• Advancement chair
• Pack secretary
• Any other position you may have on your pack committee

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I found it, see above. Change is reflected in the new position specific training that was just rolled out this summer. Most of the available resources probably haven’t been updated yet.

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Training Syllabus Error?

There is no official policy making all adult leaders members of the pack committee that I know of. It looks like whoever wrote page 109 in the new syllabus, Cub Scout Leader Position-Specific Training, 515-215, ©2019 Boy Scouts of America, 2019 Printing, misread the Cub Scout Leader Book, "Leader and Family Roles and Responsibilities chapter, pp. 49ff. That is easy to do because positions and their responsibilities are run together and not clearly separated.

In the old syllabus, Cub Scout Leader Position-Specific Training, 34875, ©2001 Boy Scouts of America 2010 printing SKU 34875, “Pack Committee Training”, p. 97, Slide 168, “Pack Leaders” lists the following as NOT being members of the pack committee.

  • Chartered organization representative (Note 1)
  • Pack Trainer (Note 2)
  • Cubmaster and assistant
  • Den leaders and assistants
  • Den chiefs

Chartered Organization Representative (COR)

Note 1: The COR may or may not be part of a unit committee. For more see the Chartered Organization Representative discussion topic.

Pack Trainer

Note 2: In 2019 the Pack Trainer (Mentor) is a member of the pack committee. Per the Guide to Leader Training, 721-920, 2018 Printing p. 52 the pack trainer:

Under the direction of the pack committee chair, helps leaders and parents understand purposes, policies, and procedures of the Cub Scouting program.

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@Bill_W

I’m certain this is not where i learned this however, because tonight is the first time I’ve seen this particular thing. I think i may have learned it in the online training. They also recently replaced all the position specific online for Cub scouts with new position specifics with CS19 designations, and deprecated all the old courses. Of course, without going back through all the courses, I can’t cite which module it would have been in. I’m also certain I saw a doc that have the difference specifically for packs vs troops, so unless I dreamt it, that’s not there somewhere too. If I can find it, I’ll link you.

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You probably did. The new syllabus and the new online training are suppose to cover the same material. Just looking at the module titles, it might be in SCO_463 Pack Structure.

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Generally, who is on your pack committee is determined at the unit level. If you have a full-functioning unit, generally the unit leaders are NOT on the pack committee and instead report to the pack committee. Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, etc…

If you have bylaws for your pack (suggested but not required) you can write them up pretty much however you want, within guidelines.

Got a very large unit? Maybe “everyone” is on the committee but only certain members “vote” on the committee (chair, activity chair, advancement chair, etc.). COR and unit commish could be given an ex officio vote… or not…

Got a very small unit? Probably ought to make the key 3 on the committee because that may be all that shows up at the committee meeting.

I think you’ll find functionally for most units, the key requirement to being “on” the unit committee is that it must be someone who says, “Shoot, I’LL DO IT!”

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My understanding is that a unit has three different recurring management meetings:

a. Key-3 leaders meeting (The unit commissioner is the advisor to the Key-3 Leaders)
b. Unit leaders meeting (Lead by the unit leader)
c. Unit committee meeting (Lead by the unit committee chair.)

There is an annual unit program planning conference.

The purpose and goals of these meetings are different.

In a pack the unit leader is the Cubmaster and the unit leaders meeting includes the Cubmaster, Assistant Cubmaster(s), Den Leaders, and Assistant Den Leader(s).

The unit leaders meeting focus is on delivering the program. The unit committee meeting focus is on supporting the program.

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Please site your source for this structure.
The unit Key 3 should have an open channel of communications and there is nothing in the Cub Scouting program that says the unit commissioner is the advisor. Having a unit commissioner involved on a regular basis no longer makes it a Key 3. The person responsible for the Key 3 is the chartered organization representative.
There is flexibility in how Packs conduct their administrative work we recommend that Packs have a Pack Committee Meeting where all leaders and parents attend. The outline for this is on page 85 of the Cub Scout Leader Book and in the on-line training modules for Pack Committee.

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Key 3 Meetings

In reply to:

Per “What is the Key-3?”, August 19, 2015, by Bryan Wendell, updated for 2018, Scouting magazine, Scouting 101 series:

Unit Key 3

  • Unit leader (Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Venturing crew advisor, Varsity team coach)
  • Unit committee chair
  • Chartered organization representative

Why isn’t the unit commissioner a member of the Key 3? Because the unit commissioner isn’t a member of the unit, and he or she serves as an advisor to the unit Key 3.

Like other Key 3s in Scouting, the unit Key 3 meets monthly at the midpoint of unit committee meetings. The Key 3 addresses unit challenges, checks on Journey to Excellence status, and adjusts program and administrative elements to ensure unit progress toward JTE.

The unit Key 3, along with the unit commissioner, reviews Voice of the Scout feedback and makes recommendations to the unit committee to strengthen unit service to youth.

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I don’t think Bryan on Scouting is a good authoritative source. It’s a nice quick reference, and enough for most people’s needs, but it’s not a guide to official policy. Also, even the update on that article is older that the policy change in question.

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Unit Key-3 Meetings

Unit Performance Guide (2016), vol. 4, page 70

THE ROLE OF THE UNIT COMMISSIONER WITH THE UNIT KEY 3
The role of the unit commissioner with the unit Key 3 is to serve as an adviser. He or she is not a member of the unit and has no voting authority but serves as a representative of the district to the unit, linking district resources to the unit as needed. It is appropriate for the new-unit commissioner to begin meeting monthly with the unit Key 3. As the unit becomes more of a high-quality unit, the unit commissioner will attend as needed.

For District JTE the unit commissioner must contact the unit at least bi-monthly for the contact to be counted.

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It depends upon what you are talking about. There are some administrative limitations.

Cub Scout Leader Book, 33221, Copyright Boy Scouts of America, 2018 printing, SKU 646725, p. 94, “ADMINISTRATION” chapter, “Den and Pack Management”, “Pack Procedures”, paragraph 3:

Pack procedures should not conflict with national or local council policies or with the policies of the chartered organization. For example, packs do not have any options when it comes to how the official uniform should be worn, how money-earning projects should be approved, or other policies described in this book.

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Well, I’ll learn soon enough. My wife is in her second week at the committee secretary, and this far haven’t heard anything from such a person. We have a couple more weeks I suppose.

I could also ask the committee about this, but I’m trying not to be really overbearing. I suspect there reality is that our district is just understaffed across the board, and all the things you’re telling me should be happening just aren’t the norm here. Just like I’m sure it’s not normal to not have a district executive for half a year.

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