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Den LeaderTraining Award

Looking at the requirements. This only indicates Tiger den leaders and above. Is this not eligible for Lion Den Leader.

Also the training requirements are to attend a pow wow, university of scouting event or equivalent or 4 roundtables or equivalent

What is a pow wow or university of scouting event?

What would be an or equivalent?Given the current situation is it possible to still complete this provided the above listed requirement is the only thign still needed.

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Lion den leader is listed on the form as being eligible (on the right side under Webelos den leader).

A Pow Wow is a day long training event for Cub Scout leaders. It is usually put on by councils or larger districts. A University of Scouting event is similar, but it is not limited to Cub Scout leaders.

You would need to check your council’s website to find out when they are offered. Roundtable might be an option right now if they are holding them virtually.

Talk to your District or Council Training Chair, but BALOO might be equivalent. There might be some other options that they will approve.

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Here is the link to the training awards which are towards the bottom and the Lion leader is among them. I hope this helps

We have had 1 roundtable virtually and will do the next in a week or 2. So, yes.

@DenisPohlman - I think the reason the requirement says “or equivalent” is primarily because of the variety of names used for what is essentially the same thing. My council does not have a University of Scouting event, which would include Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scout leaders. Instead it has what is commonly called a Pow Wow, which is only for Cub Scout leaders. Nevertheless, they don’t call it a Pow Wow; they call it Cub University.

I think the secondary reason is says “or equivalent” is to give the training chair some flexibility. I’ve never heard of a roundtable being called anything other than a roundtable. However, perhaps some sort of gathering might be equivalent to a roundtable even of the way the program is presented differs. Check with your district training chair.

With many districts having roundtables remotes, it is feasible that you could attend four of them virtually between now and the end of the program year. So, even if you haven’t been to any, you still have a shot to meet the requirement. Good luck.

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My Council only has 1 virtual roundtable. Is it permitted to attend ones of surrounding districts.

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Interesting question. In general, there’s no prohibition against attending other Districts’ Roundtables, and in fact, that’s a great way to meet more scouters and hear about more ideas from a wider variety of units. And for anyone who is or is considering serving as a RT Commissioner, you definitely need to do this.

That said, I’m not sure I would personally agree that attending 4 RTs (virtual or not) in one month meets the spirit of the requirement. Seems kinda like gaming the system.

However, the actual spirit of the requirement seems to say that you should participate in 3-5 hours of training beyond DL basics, which can be satisfied with one UoS/Powwow (which are generally at least a half-day) or 4 RTs (which are generally 60-90 minutes each).

But I guess this really depends on how persnickety your District Training Chair is, and what they’ll accept. Personally, I feel if you’re making the effort to learn how to be a better DL, it should count.

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I totally agree with you. I was recently shown the award requirements, I meet everything except this requirement. I am not one to push it all off until the end like it is, but it would mean a lot to me to earn to show my son that I am committed to this like he is.


@DenisPohlman I would recommend contacting your District Training Chair. The District Training Chair approves the award, so they should be able to advise you.


Den Leader Training Award


I believe you have an old version of the “Den Leader Training Award Progress Record”. Form 511-052, 2018 Printing, includes awards for:

❏ Tiger den leader
❏ Cub Scout den leader (Wolf/Bear)
❏ Webelos den leader
❏ Lion den leader
Note: This award can be earned in each position, but tenure may be used only for one award

Training Requirements for the award

❏ Complete the basic training for the selected den leader position (in person, instructor-led, or e-learning).
❏ Attend a pow wow or university of Scouting (or equivalent), or attend at least four roundtables (or equivalent) during the tenure used for this award.
❏ Complete Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO).

I did not see anything in the Lion or Tiger den leader guides describing adult leader training. May I suggest starting with the Cub Scouting program description:

Basic leader training with the exception of BALOO can be completed online at the the BSA Learn Center accessible via https://my.scouting.org.

BALOO is normally a combination online and outdoor in-person course.

I suspect many districts are currently doing online virtual roundtable meetings.

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@DenisPohlman - Your training chair is the one who ultimately makes that decision. In my view, any roundtable should satisfy the requirement.

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@Bill_W - The phrase:

is a legacy from the Leader-Specific Training regime that existed between 2001 and 2015. There were three separate courses: Tiger Den Leader Leader-Specific Training (C41), Cub Scout Den Leader and Assistant Den Leader Leader-Specific Training (C42, which was for Wolf and Bear den leaders) and Webelos Den Leader and Assistant Den Leader Leader-Specific Training (C61). Effective September 1, 2015, C41 and C43 were eliminated, and C42 became Cub Scout Den Leader Position Specific Training and was the appropriate training course for den leaders at all levels. This change would seem to have eliminated the need for specifying that training for the den leader position chosen EXCEPT for those who were trained before September 1, 2015. If an adult took C41 in 2001 and served as a Tiger den leader for 18 years and then became a Lion den leader in September 2019, that adult is not trained as a Lion den leader and must take CS19 Den Leader Training to wear the Trained patch on his or her uniform and to earn a Den Leader Training Award as a Lion Den Leader. because C41 trained people as Tiger den leaders and nothing else. I don’t expect this will happen often, but the possibility remains.

I don’t know for sure, but I presume that if someone completes CS19 Den Leader Training in person rather than by completing the online modules, the training code used remains C42.

Anyone who completed Cub Scout Leader Basic Training before September 1, 2001, is considered trained for any position in a Cub Scout pack. The course code was C101.

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