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ILSC course

One of the requirements for Discover award is to Complete the Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews course (or an equivalent). if a scout has recently taken/taught ILST/staffed NYLT do you think this counts as an equivalent?
thanks in advance.

It seems to me that such a Venturer is well equipped to run Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews. Running the course should count as completing it.

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I’ve certainly seen that done at the adult leader level, where instructors for the course (who may not have previously taken the course) are recruited to teach based on existing skills. They then get credit for having taken the course. Learning something well enough to teach it is at least as educational as sitting through the class as a participant, particularly when working with other experienced instructors.

@CharleyHamilton - Exactly. I staffed the first Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills course Manhattan Council ever presented. Obviously, no one staffing the course had ever taken it, because it had only been in existence for a few months.

When BALOO was in its infancy, I got certified by being a course director for this new thing with a funny, distracting name.

I also staffed New Leader Essentials and all the 2001-2015 vintage Cub Scout Leader Specific Training courses (Tiger Den Leader, Cub Scout Den Leader, Webelos Den Leader, Cubmaster and Pack Committee Member) without ever having taken them. At some point during that timespan, the five courses were combined to created a single Cub Scout Leader Specific Training course, since so many of the sessions were common to all five courses. As a practical matter, many training teams, including the one of which I was a part, presented all the material to all the participants anyway. The LST era ended with the introduction of the three Position Specific Training courses for Cub Scout Leaders which lasted until the end of 2018. New versions of these three along with a new Pack Committee Chair Position Specific Training course became part of the new CS19 training series.

In the era immediately preceding the launch of Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills, Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters took a course called Scoutmastership Fundamentals. This was usually presented over two weekends, The first weekend was indoors, and the second weekend was in camp. The outdoor sessions were used as the basis for developing the first syllabus for Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills, and the material presented in the indoor sessions migrated to Scoutsmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training.

thanks for the reply but I was asking at the scout level not the leader level. As a former training chair for my district i’ve had to be in that situation for a few of my leader trainings as well.

If it were my decision to make, I would not count ILST and NYLT staffing as an equivalent of ILSC. There’s a reason why ILST and ILSC are two different courses just like BALOO and IOLS are different. I would want the Venturer to staff (and likely take the lead on) ILSC for the crew.

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I think what @PeterHopkins and I were getting at is that, if teaching a course is good enough for the adults who are getting trained to be considered as having received the training, then it seems logical that it should be good enough for a scout in the same situation to get credit for being trained by teaching the training themselves. That said, I don’t know enough about the content of ILSC to say that ILST/NYLT could substitute for ILSC. A quick glance at the facilitator’s guides for ILSC and ILST seems to suggest a difference in structure at least:

ILSC
Module 1 - Leading Self
Module 2 - Leading Others
Module 3 - Leading Crews

ILST
Module 1 - Troop Organization
Module 2 - Tools of Leadership
Module 3 - Leadership and Teamwork

I don’t have access to the current NYLT curriculum, so I can’t comment specifically on comparability. That said, my recollection from talking to my scouts is that NYLT is far closer to Woodbadge than any other adult/youth training course.

Thanks for that input.

thanks for the input. As someone that hasn’t been in venturing since the current awards have been implemented i’m still trying to catch up on my knowledge. I could see the ilsc/ilst wouldn’t work but haven taken nylt as a participant maybe? I’m not trying to rush any scout through their awards but I want to give credit where its due if they’ve done the work or the “equivalent”

It might be worth reaching out to your council advancement committee to see what they’ve considered to comply with “or equivalent” before. If they have ruled that ILST, NYLT, and/or NAYLE do/don’t qualify, then you’ve on more solid ground with your response to the crew president and other Venturers. If not, maybe that gets the council thinking about it, or asking nationals what the “or equivalent” was meant to encompass.

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Great idea!! ill look more into that.

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Introduction to Leadership Skills courses

My understanding is that they are different courses. That is ILST, ILSC, and ILSS are program specific.

The Introduction to Leadership Skills course descriptions are at BSA Home > Training > Training for Youth.

Scouts BSA ILST

Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops (ILST)

The purpose of the ILST course is to teach Scouts with leadership positions about their new roles and how to most effectively reach success in that role. It is intended to help Scouts in leadership positions within their troop understand their responsibilities and to equip them with organizational and leadership skills to fulfill those responsibilities. ILST is the first course in the series of leadership training offered to Scouts and is a replacement for Troop Leadership Training. Completion of ILST is a prerequisite for Scouts to participate in the more advanced leadership courses National Youth Leadership Training (NYLT) and the National Advanced Youth Leadership Experience (NAYLE). It is also required to participate in a Kodiak Challenge Trek.

View Online PDF icon (July 2018)
Troop Position Description Cards PDF icon

Venturing ILSC

Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews (ILSC)

The purpose of the Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews course is to teach crew members with leadership positions about their new roles and how to most effectively reach success in that role. It is intended to help Venturers in leadership positions within their crew understand their responsibilities and to equip them with organizational and leadership skills to fulfill those responsibilities. Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews is the first course in the series of leadership training offered to Venturers and is a replacement for the Venturing Leadership Skills Course. Completion of Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews is a prerequisite for Venturers to participate in the more advanced leadership courses National Youth Leadership Training (NYLT) and the National Advanced Youth Leadership Experience (NAYLE). It is also required for Kodiak.

View Online PDF icon

Sea Scouts BSA ILSS

Introduction to Leadership Skills for Ships (ILSS)

ILSS is intended to help Sea Scouts in leadership positions within their ship understand their responsibilities and to equip them with organizational and leadership skills to fulfill those responsibilities. ILSS replaces the Venturing Leadership Skills Course (VLSC) and is a prerequisite for Sea Scouts to participate in the more advanced leadership courses (i.e., National Advanced Youth Leadership Experience (NAYLE) and the Kodiak Challenge).

View Online html icon

Copyright

© 2020 Boy Scouts of America, downloaded 17 March 2020

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Something you did not mention that I believe is important before even considering allowing this is whether the scout was a registered Venturers when they completed ILST and NYLT. No experiences completed by female Ventures could be counted towards Scouts BSA even though if they met the requirement verbatim. I would think that would also apply here as well. I personally do not think ILST should replace ILSC because the content is incredibly different, but both meet a prerequisite for NYLT which expounds on and goes beyond both those courses

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