# Inconsistent definition for fifth grade scouts

**URL:** <https://discussions.scouting.org/t/inconsistent-definition-for-fifth-grade-scouts/507232>\
**Category:** Scouting America Rebrand\
**Created:** [September 18, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://discussions.scouting.org/t/inconsistent-definition-for-fifth-grade-scouts/507232 "2025-09-18T15:14:35Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Brian396242](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Brian396242](https://discussions.scouting.org/u/Brian396242)\
**Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://discussions.scouting.org/t/inconsistent-definition-for-fifth-grade-scouts/507232/1 "2025-09-18T15:14:35Z")

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What do you call a Scout in the fifth grade, who has not earned the Arrow of Light badge yet?

According to the Language of Scouting [Language of Scouting | Scouting America](https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/) by the definition of ‘Cub Scouting’ they are a ‘Arrow of Light Scout’ but by the definition of ‘Webelos Scout’ they are a ‘Webelos Scout’. So which is it and please explain why. I want my language to be on-brand when I refer to fifth grade scouts prior to them earning Arrow of Light badge.

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**Author:** ![edavignon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/scouting/user_avatar/discussions.scouting.org/edavignon/32/16_2.png) [@edavignon](https://discussions.scouting.org/u/edavignon)\
**Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://discussions.scouting.org/t/inconsistent-definition-for-fifth-grade-scouts/507232/2 "2025-09-18T15:16:17Z")

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I suspect the documents have not been updated for the last Cub Scout program changes.

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**Author:** ![PeterGlass](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/scouting/user_avatar/discussions.scouting.org/peterglass/32/29068_2.png) [@PeterGlass](https://discussions.scouting.org/u/PeterGlass)\
**Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 3:59pm UTC](https://discussions.scouting.org/t/inconsistent-definition-for-fifth-grade-scouts/507232/3 "2025-09-18T15:59:46Z")

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I think that sounds like the best answer …

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**Author:** ![Matt.Johnson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/scouting/user_avatar/discussions.scouting.org/matt.johnson/32/23672_2.png) [@Matt.Johnson](https://discussions.scouting.org/u/Matt.Johnson)\
**Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://discussions.scouting.org/t/inconsistent-definition-for-fifth-grade-scouts/507232/4 "2025-09-18T19:13:02Z")

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> [@Brian396242](#):
>
> I want my language to be on-brand when I refer to fifth grade scouts prior to them earning Arrow of Light badge.

Cub Scouts who are members of the AoL den. Or most people call them “arrow of lights”.

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**Author:** ![CharleyHamilton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/scouting/user_avatar/discussions.scouting.org/charleyhamilton/32/3113_2.png) [@CharleyHamilton](https://discussions.scouting.org/u/CharleyHamilton)\
**Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://discussions.scouting.org/t/inconsistent-definition-for-fifth-grade-scouts/507232/5 "2025-09-18T19:17:52Z")

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> [@Matt.Johnson](#):
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> most people call them “arrow of lights”.

…or Arrows of Light, kinda like attorney generals vs attorneys general. :^) Although both are clearly not on brand based on what you posted.

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**Author:** ![DonovanMcNeil](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/scouting/user_avatar/discussions.scouting.org/donovanmcneil/32/24_2.png) [@DonovanMcNeil](https://discussions.scouting.org/u/DonovanMcNeil)\
**Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 7:31pm UTC](https://discussions.scouting.org/t/inconsistent-definition-for-fifth-grade-scouts/507232/6 "2025-09-18T19:31:51Z")

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I think the easier way of saying it - do not think like Scouts BSA - when in a Wolf Den - the Scout is a Wolf scout, it does not matter if they have rank or not - rank does not define the scout - the den does