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Krav Maga

I have a venturer that is participating in Krav Maga outside of scouting and was wondering if this is an approved activity that can be used to fulfill some of the quest requirements. Thanks

@JeremyPenner - perhaps something in here may provide some insight:

But I think you may have already been here. I wish I could offer better… This may take some thought

I saw it specifically state karate but I didn’t see anything else specifically called out but I only glanced through.

I think it may fall under extreme or action sports would be my guess.

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It seems like this includes “striking” each other. Activity Planning and Risk Assessment | Boy Scouts of America

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Nowhere on the Quest requirements does it say that the sport has to be an approved BSA activity. But, that would get in the way of completing requirements. I don’t think a Krav Maga sports clinic for a Cub Scout den would be approved. But maybe there is another youth group that would be amenable to martial arts training.

On the positive side, at least it’s not dodgeball. :confounded:

The Guide to Safe Scouting under Prohibited Activities says:

  1. Activities where participants strike at each other, including martial arts, boxing, combat games, gladiator games, and reenactment activities such as live action role-playing games (LARP) and Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) activities (exception: tai chi)

Reading the description of Krav Maga, I would say this falls under the prohibited activity list.

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@edavignon, I think we have butted up against an inconsistency of purpose. There is a difference between the ever-shrinking list of activities that a BSA unit may undertake, and activities that a Venturer can study in pursuit of Quest.

Nowhere in the Quest Award does it say that the Venturer has to research a BSA-approved activity. Nor does the Venturer have to fulfill requirements under the auspices of the BSA. This has been a key distinction between Venturing and Scouts BSA and what has made it intersect well with the life of a young adult.

Qwazse,

If I were the Venturing Leader, I would be very careful to not violate the Prohibited Activity section of the Guide to Safe Scouting.

Section VII states:

If it is determined that youth were allowed to participate or engage in unauthorized or prohibited activities, a leader’s registration and/or the unit’s charter may be subject to adverse action, including revocation.

An activity used for a BSA award, regardless of the age of the Scout, would fall under the Guide to Safe Scouting. Awards to not need to say that the Scout must adhere to the Guide. This is implied in the BSA’s policies.

If you feel there is a discrepancy in the Guide to Safe Scouting, I suggest you take it up with your Scout Executive so that it can be explained to you or if there is truly a discrepancy, it can be corrected.

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This isnt for a Cub Scout group it would be for a venturing scout.

I agree for the "research " portion I don’t think it has to be one of the "approved but… for any of the activities that is where my original question lies on whether or not it could be done since I wasn’t familiar with the activity.

Agreed hence my original question. Thanks for your other input

And I would have gotten away with it if it were not for you meddling kids:-)

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@JeremyPenner, the intent of the Quest requirements is for the individual to gain competency then involve other groups requirement 5c and 5d reads:

Participate and show proficiency in a sport of your choice.
For your chosen sport, give a sports clinic to a Cub Scout pack or den, Boy Scout troop, or other youth group. Include a demonstration and skills teaching. You can even include competition when possible.

So, a venturer doesn’t really achieve the requirement by getting his/her crew to participate in the activity. These awards are designed to have a venturer reach out beyond the circles of his/her crew. Thus my Cub Scout reference earlier.

For liability reasons, a crew can’t have martial arts for an activity. (Thus, with a stroke of a pen, away went our council’s one LARPing crew.) We may not like it, but BSA is on the hook for every injury our youth endure while under our care. So, they will quickly disavow you if they think you are wantonly increasing their exposure to legal action.

@edavignon, here’s the rub. What can I do if a scout is boxing at a gym? Going to their college martial arts club? Teaching self-defense? Starting a judo club that goes on to produce olympians (as one of my committee did in his day)? And what if, in the process, they meet the letter of the requirement?

If a scout takes pains to make clear that they are doing this outside of the auspices of the BSA, and he or she can only do it in his/her dojo, isn’t that enough? Am I to deny someone an award who follows requirements as written to the letter?

I agree that bouncing it off of a scout executive is a good idea. It would be also nice to hear from the national Venturing committee on how others may have handled this. It may be that since 2019 when the activity list was expanded, there haven’t been many venturers with this particular problem. But, knowing how others have addressed this would help.

If it’s a non-scouting event nothing.

Looking at what everyone has mentioned about the GTSS and from what i’ve gathered from that it doesnt meet the letter of the requirement if the GTSS says you can’t do certain activities.

If they say they’re doing it outside the auspices of the BSA I would tell them It wouldnt count for rank/achievement/award. I would almost call that Double dipping and unless the wording is the same I don’t think you can get credit for it under that situation.

You kind of answered your own question. If they can’t teach it to a bsa group then, unless they find some other youth group, they would not complete the requirements.

In my opinion, if they do it outside of the BSA and complete ALL of the requirements without breaking the GTSS (non BSA functions and groups) Then I would give it to them.

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^^ here in lies the benefit of the forums ^^ discuss the issues and eventually come to an understanding of how to approach it. Will we always agree on the outcome or result no not really but we are entrusted with a set of governing policies that we are obligated to uphold for better or worse.

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I’m gearing up for University of Scouting in a few months, so that’s why I’m mulling it over.

The G2SS wording poses a bigger problem for those of us who work with older youth and young adults. Are we even allowed to attend a boxing match? What if a youth finds out that we do, and decides to take up the sport? Could that be consider “permitting” the activity.

Should scouts raise flags at a football game or dodgeball tournament?
Lots to unpack.

I think there is a difference between participating in a sport (for the sake of conversation on the quest award) as an athlete and getting credit for those requirements and attending a pro game and researching about one of its players, the history of the game/sport. As for raising the flag at said event I don’t see that there is an issue. Scouts are allowed to attend inaugurations or similar events to present the colors in uniform but must promptly leave since they are in uniform.

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