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Lion Den Leader Training Award

Howdy, I see the new award tracker, as of sep’18, lists lion den leaders as eligible for the den leader training award. I also see the clause that you need to be in the position for a year, unless you are a tiger leader (for program year, 8months).

Now, I assume the tiger clause is there because those dens traditonally form in aug/sep and would advance in may. I would think the same clause should exist for Lion den leaders.

Basically, I’m not sure how a Lion leader can ever meet the requirements (even though the form says they are eligible), since the dens wouldn’t form until aug/sep and then rank advancement in May.

Am I reading into this wrong? If our Lion Den Leaders meet all the other training / activity requirements, should they submit for turn award?

For reference, the updated requirements : https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cpcbsa.org/files/26097/Den-Leader-Training-Award&ved=2ahUKEwjN96KI4ubmAhWabs0KHXaoA_gQFjACegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1yrwNn2rthk9jFdPpFP_uN

@DavidAnderson06, I’m assuming that requiring Lion den leaders to have a year of tenure while letting Tiger den leaders qualify with less than a year is an editing error. We had a Lion and a Lion den leader (the lion’s dad) register on July 20. The last day of school will be on June 12, which will put him 38 days short of a year. He will easily meet the other requirements, and I intend to have him submit an application for the award. I (as CM) will provide for him a note to attach to the application, when it is submitted to the district training chair. The pack committee chair is on board with this.

To my knowledge, no Lion device exists for wear on the Den Leader Training Award medal or knot. I have suggested that the Cub Scout device should be used to signify that the award was earned as a Lion den leader, until or unless a Lion device is created.

The den leader award for tigers says something to the affect that they can count the tenure if they meet at least 10 months. I would assume that lions might be the same or similar to that.

@JeremyPenner, when they updated the tracking application, they made it say a year is required except for Tiger DLs, who only need a “program year” that is at least eight months long. It is absurd to think that the same rule was not intended to apply to Lion DLs. The far more likely explanation is that this was an editing error in updating the form.

thats what i was trying to say in regards to your leader that was short 38 days.

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Glad to see I’m not crazy, hah. Any idea who to contact to get the application reviewed / possibly updated? Figure someone needs to highlight it.

Closest thing I could find was on the “new award proposal” application. Maybe submit to that contact info?

New award app: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-506_WEB.pdf

Now that it is settled, I want to hijack the tread a bit. I would put in a few of our den leaders for the award, but NONE attend round table or went to the university of Scouting. I go to round table each month I can (usually about 8 out of the 10 that are held). I always try to nudge people to go to round table and say it is needed for the award. Do your den leaders attend round table and or ended up going to a university of Scouting?

@Matt.Johnson, I have difficulty attending round tables in my district. They are usually held on the same evening as our den meetings. My husband works until 8pm, and round tables are usually held at 5:30pm. On the times they don’t interfere with Den. I’d have to bring my cub scout with me and am unsure if it’s appropriate to bring children. Im lucky I work early in the day so 5:30 is an option for me to reach almost anywhere in my district, but for many of our leaders 5:30 is challenging even for local events much less reaching elsewhere in district. Our district has a 1.5 hour distance range from one end to the other and most of my leaders work until 5pm and they can barely arrive at local pack/den events by 6pm. I’m open to attending round tables but find the scheduling challenging.

I agree it isn’t easy. If you don’t make it to 4 or to a University of Scouting (which many said wasn’t worth the time, one can’t get the den leader award, pack leader or scoutmaster of merit, or scouter’s key.

If your Council’s University of Scouting is not worth the time, I’s suggest attending another Counil’s UofS. I have attended almost a dozen UofS and have never been disappointed.

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Great to hear! I was thinking about going to a nearby council’s.

Yesterday I met a couple ladies that treat University of Scouting like some troops treat summer camp. They never hit the same one twice in a row. In fact, they decided that next year they will make a weekend and fly to wherever they are heading.

That is neat. I wanted to go to see it myself but our committee was like “that hasn’t been good in 10 years” and scheduled our December camp out on top of it. So, I couldn’t see it for myself. I always enjoy a day of trading with a bunch of different choose your own path type of trading vs a long single topic.

Thank you SO MUCH for posting this! I was a Lion Guide last year (2018-2019) and I must have downloaded an older form. I’m a CM now and thought I had missed my shot at the Den Leader award, but now I’m eligible (assuming Council doesn’t balk at the submission delay.)

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For a different perspective, a Lion Guide “should be a seasoned leader with previous successful leader experience” as per the Lion Leader book. Now we all know that doesn’t happen, however I talked to a parent in our pack about being Lion Guide for her daughter next year and then remaining Lion Guide for a few more years. (She was a preschool teacher and will be perfect for that age group.) Lions should have a dedicated guide not a complete newbie parent, and it frustrates me that that directive isn’t taken more seriously. Anyway, if we had dedicated Lion Guides staying in that position for multiple years then a leader could fulfill those Den Leader Awards timelines.

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As a side note, you don’t need to do University of Scouting or attend four Roundtables. You can attend PowWow to meet this requirement.

Our council hasn’t had a PowWow. I assumed it was synonymous with a University of Scouting. How do they differ?

U of S typically has sessions covering aspects of Cub Scout, Scouts BSA, and possibly Venturing and/or Sea Scouts. A Pow Wow is just Cub Scouts.

I live in Longs Peak Council, CO, which does not have a Pow Wow. However, I was visiting in Baltimore Area Council and attended their Pow Wow. Great having a choice of 40+ sessions or so about Cub Scouts, rather than 10ish at a U of S.

That would depend on your council’s University of Scouting. In Longhorn Council TX (Fort Worth), the cub scout offerings are as extensive as the scouts BSA offerings at UofS. If your council’s UofS is lacking in the cub scout department and that is an issue for you, time to talk to the Deans, and perhaps offer to teach a few classes.

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