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Need some clarification on position of leadership & time served

Hi All. Hoping someone can help with this.

I have a scout who took the training and became a Den Chief last September while he was a second class scout. In February he achieved First Class. In June, he believes he will be eligible for Star (4 months after becoming First Class) however one of the committee members disagrees. They make 2 points:

  1. They can’t use the same position they held while second class to count towards Req 5 "While a First Class Scout, serve actively in your troop for four months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility "

  2. Even if you can use the same position held, the cub scouts have taken off for the summer (they last met in April) and therefore he wasn’t actively a Den Chief until they return.

I disagree on both points. I have found nothing in the guide to advancement that supports either point, and I contend that if the scout chooses to continue to be a Den Chief if he is so during his tenure at any rank it should count and not be held against him if they take time off.

I am curios to hear if others have been in this same boat or if anyone can shed any info on the subject.

Thank you

#1 they are wrong - it is time as a First Class in a position, not started a position as a first class

#2 that is tougher - it is serve actively - is the Scout working Day camp or going to Residents camp with the Den? But it is up to the Scoutmaster for Approval and no one else. LOL just my thoughts on it as a Scoutmaster.

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Page 25 of the Guide to Advancement says “Regardless of a units expectations or policy, if a unit takes time off, such as during the summer months, it must count that time toward service in a position of responsibility.”
However we make sure that our Den Chiefs know before they accept the position that they are expected to actively do something to help their Den during those months. Some serve at Twilight/Day camp others put supplies together for the August and September meetings, some attend the units summer time activities to help out. There are many things they can do to be active they just need to know that expectation in advance.

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  1. I agree with @DonovanMcNeil. Nowhere does it say that the Scout cannot use the same position. Some troops have different terms of office, so it doesn’t make sense that the Scout has to change position every time he or she makes a new rank. The time would start as soon as the Scout passed his First Class board of review in February.

  2. It’s a shame that the pack doesn’t meet at all over the summer, but that is out of your Scout’s control. Did the troop set expectations for this ahead of time? If not, it is unfair to hold it against the Scout now. I agree with both of the above posters. GTA Section 4.2.3.4 “Positions of Responsibility” is the relevant section.

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The questions to ask is “Did the Scout earn First Class?” and “After earning First Class, did the Scout serve in a POR?” Note the requirement does not say “start serving” or otherwise indicate it must be a new position.

Requiring a Scout to hold a different position as a First Class Scout is adding to the requirements which is not permitted.

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I agree with others and add that the committee has no say in this. The SM signs off and the requirement is done. I hope the committee is not using the Board of Review to retest the scout.

Thank you all for your input. I feel confident we are good against #1 now, and his POR is fine as it stands.

#2 is still a grey area. We are checking with the cub master to see if there’s any functions he could help with over the summer, but regardless of the answer the fact is we never communicated to the scout that the position would be “on hold” during the summer months, nor is it his fault the cubs take the summer off. If he comes to us in June feeling like he’s ready to advance I see no reason to deny that.

Thanks

I’m not so sure that #2 is a grey area. When did the troop establish expectations of the Scout? If the answer is May when the Scout became First Class back in February, then they are trying to establish expectations near the end of the 4 months - not the beginning. Depending on the answer, then either Guide to Advancement section 4.2.3.4.3 or 4.2.3.4.4 is applicable.

Section 4.2.3.4.3 clearly says:
“Regardless of a unit’s expectations or policy, if a unit takes time off, such as during the summer months, it must count that time toward service in a position of responsibility.”

A pack is a unit, and the pack is taking time off over the summer. You can encourage the Scout to try to be active with the den / pack, but you can’t hold it against him if the pack is not active.

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Thank you Jennifer! I believe you are correct. We never set any expectations as this is the first Den Chief we’ve had in a very long time and we just never considered the cub pack’s schedule. I believe we are good.

When the situation you have issue with is in writing and specifically addressed by the Guide to Advancement… Life is good. =P