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Rank completed out of order

I know it is possible to work on scout through first class simultaneously. We did have an unusual situation pop up.

We had a scout show up for the Tenderfoot rank as completed before the scout rank was completed. The scout did complete scout rank. It was marked in his physical book. That’s why he was approved for a BoR for tenderfoot.

Should scoutbook allow the rank of tenderfoot or higher be fully approved when the prior rank is not?

Technically a scout COULD earn Scout, TF, 2nd and 1st on the same day. But I think SB restricts dates to as least the same for those, and TF could not be before Scout has a date.

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The code in Scoutbook should prevent a date completed for Tenderfoot being put in prior to a date completed for Scout rank. However, it is possible that the TF rank came in from ScoutNET.

At any rate, you should be able to fix it in Scoutbook.

With the new fitness requirements, there is necessarily a minimum four week span between Tenderfoot and 2nd Class, and 2nd Class and 1st Class.

It’s a little bit ambiguous about the time that must elapse between Scout and Tenderfoot. The only explicit required sequence is that a scout should have his Tenderfoot scoutmaster conference after his Scout SMC. It’s not hard to have both SMCs in the same hour if the scout comes with all other requirements for both ranks signed off!

If the scout’s book had all of the sign-offs, get them transferred digitally as best you can. Then move on.

Going by the requirements, there is a 30 day / 4 week span between the fitness requirements for TF, SC, FC, but not necessarily the ranks. By this I mean that a Scout could do the fitness requirements first (and in order), then (potentially) complete the other requirements so that a board of review could be possible for TF, SC, FC all on the same day. I think this is probably unlikely, in most cases, but it could happen.

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I see what you’re saying. A scout may complete the fitness requirement for the previous rank without necessarily having earned that rank! Thanks!

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Yeh, we had that happen a couple years ago. One young man joined the troop so he could go to Philmont and Isle Royale with his buddies. He banged out all the requirements for Scout, TF, 2C, and 1C between New Years and Memorial Day, then we sat down and knocked out three BORs for him in about 45 minutes…

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Correct. IOW, there is no way to do all four ranks in under 60 days.

From 1st Class
8a.
After completing Second Class requirement 7a, be physically active at least 30 minutes each day for five days a week for four weeks. Keep track of your activities.

Which means at a minimum 4 weeks have to transpire from starting this requirement to its completion. Looking at 2nd class we also have:

7a After completing Tenderfoot requirement 6c, be physically active at least 30 minutes each day for five days a week for four weeks. Keep track of your activities.

So if you go by the book, yes you can do your SMs/BOR on a single day, it’s impossible to get all requirements done for Trail to First Class done in < 2 months.

It takes a minimum of 30 days from joining to earn Tenderfoot, a minimum of 58 to earn 2nd Class (30 days + 4 weeks) and a minimum of 86 days to earn First Class (30 days + 4 weeks + 4 weeks) provided the Scout starts the physical activity requirements as soon as completing the requirement for the previous rank.

A Scout could theoretically earn all 3 ranks on the same day provided they did the following in this order:
Tenderfoot Board of Review
2nd Class Scoutmaster Conference
2nd Class Board of Review
1st Class Scoutmaster Conference
1st Class Board of Review

It is not permissible to skip the 2nd Scoutmaster conference, or combine the 2 Scoutmaster conferences into one, skip BORs or combine them.

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Couldn’t you have 3 Scoutmaster conferences, one right after the other? It says you could have back to back BoR’s, but strongly recommends different compositions.

I don’t think these are great ideas, but I love discussing the nuances of the framework, guides, and rules.

I guess you could do the Scoutmaster Conferences back to back. I thought the Scoutmaster Conference requirement said after completing the previous rank while it actually says after completing the Scoutmaster Conference for the previous rank.

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This makes sense. We have had a scout or two who nail all but one of the requirements in three months to a year. Then it could take them four or five years to get that last one done. If that happens to be a 2nd class requirement, we don’t want to stretch that time out unnecessarily by making the scout come back for the 1st class SMC.
When the physical fitness requirements rolled out, I misinterpreted them as implying the rank had to be earned before starting on the one for the next rank. I’m glad I got set right before any scouts like this showed for rank advancement. It would be no big deal for a 13 year old. But for a sixteen year old, we start pushing age deadlines.

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Here is the thing many people miss: the SM conference does NOT need to be just before the BOR. If I had a scout pushing to get to 1st Class in the approximate 90 days, I would likely have conferences with said scout each month to check in on the progress.

Personally, I like to have a conference with a scout between when they leave a BOR and being told the result. When that doesn’t happen, then I have one the next meeting. I don’t always mark it off, but I could in good conscience mark every one of my scouts off for their SM conference most of the time. I cherish the moments to have individual discussions with my scouts.

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That’s a great practice, but remember it doesn’t count as the SM Conference for advancement. The Handbook is quite clear that the BORs are completed after all the other requirements, including the SM Conference for that rank, are completed.

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It absolutely would count. If a scout comes out of a FC board and I hold a conference said scout is now covered for Star (unless the scout failed to pass the BOR for FC). There is a tendency to place the conference just before the BOR. And I don’t think it is a bad idea to meet with a scout just before the BOR (and in fact think it is a great idea as many get extremely nervous).

The one thing this post makes me think about is that perhaps I should start signing off the conference once we have met and I know the scout passed. It might help that the scout sees the push to the next rank. I have so far not had any scouts taking the fast track.

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You’re correct; I wasn’t very clear… the SM Conference you have right after the BOR for 1st Class counts towards Star. What I meant was you cannot have the BOR for First Class, then the SM Conference for First Class afterwards.

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Yea, I wouldn’t try to have the conference after the Board. The big thing is that many people seem to think a couple things:

  • This can be used as a measure to stop an unworthy candidate
  • This needs to happen just before the board

I have seen a number of interesting road blocks to advancement including requiring a scout to have his book present. Or requiring the scout to purchase the new book when they changed last time. It aggravates me to no end partly because such things lead to ever stricter rules that prevent the BOR from actually evaluating the scout.

There is no statement that all requirements must be completed before the SMC. From the FC requirements, I quote:

  1. Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Tell how you have done your duty to God and how you have lived four different points of the Scout Law (different from those points used for previous ranks) in your everyday life.
  2. While working toward the First Class rank, and after completing Second Class requirement 11, participate in a Scoutmaster conference.

As you can see, there is a requirement that Scout Spirit is demonstrated before the SMC, but no req’t that the preceding 10 are completed before #11.

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I believe you are mistaken about this. You are quoting First Class Requirements. FC 12 says it must be after second class 11, which is the scoutmaster conference for Second Class.

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