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Sailing through Youth Protection (YPT)

Then it should be put behind a firewall or have a big disclaimer added that it is out of DAR and should not be used.

@edavignon
Are you and the person(s) you are working with at BSA national aware that when you remove an old file from the scouting.org you may be breaking links to the file from official periodical archives which makes it look like BSA is trying to hide old information from the public, which I understand they are not trying to do. Removed files need to be recovered.

The correct approach I believe is to control what the search engines are indexing and to have a search engine for old files on https://www.scouting.org/

BSA might be able to add a “This document has been superseded.” to the publicly readable document. They may need to keep a copy of the original for legal purposes.

No longer approved policies need to be removed. The BSA is not running a historical archive.

The people doing the removal will need to follow their own document retention policy which is between them and their supervisor and legal.

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@Matt.Johnson
I disagree with your opinions. One way to destroy a culture is to destroy its history. BSA needs to retain its history.

I believe this is a case of “the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.” in the BSA organization.

It is not appropriate for me to start a world history class in this discussion thread.

If you are a Scout I suggest investigating world history on you own. If your public library does not have the information, I suggest going to a university library to find out more about the world. (When I was a youth, that is what I did to learn more about lasers and how they worked when there was little information about them in the approved high school texts.) My understanding is that Scouting includes having fun while learning about subjects you are interested in,

If you are an adult Scouter, please remember the founder of the Scouting movement wanted us to not do for the Scouts what they could do for themselves.

A website is not a historical record. It isn’t true for any organization. It would confuse users to no end. Look up any guide or advice on websites: timely, current, and accurate info. It isn’t an opinion. Does the Scoutshop carry the previous 10 editions of the handbook? No. That is what the museum is for. Does the White House have all of the previous President’s pages on it? No, that would be confusing. They pay someone to archive it. The BSA doesn’t have the funds to do it. The best we can all expect is accurate and current info. Again, not an opinion, that is an absolute NEED for the entire organization.

Please leave this thread open. The OP (me) initiated a discussion and a discussion happened. One way to destroy a culture is to destroy it’s history…

When a thread is closed, it still appears, it just is closed to further discussion.

BSA has several historical achieves online including this forum. .

Information from BSA:

As promised, here’s my question & response to a member of the National Sea Scout Committee. My conclusions are at the end.

EMAIL SENT
TO: ( member ) National Sea Scout Committee
DATE: 07/19/2021
FROM: Matt Lettrich, …
SUBJECT: father vrs. female adult leader
(member)
Thank you for taking the time to answer what I think is a complicated Youth Protection question. I’m continuing this discussion with you with ( Sea Scout Ship Mate )…
I’m the originator of the string at Sailing through Youth Protection (YPT). The string’s original question was answered, but another arose in the same string. I am now trying to answer a specific father related question:
Can the registered adult leader father of a female scout be credited towards youth protection supervision in place of an adult registered female leader at a scouting activity?

My whole argument is based on the following excerpt from Youth Protection and Barriers to Abuse FAQs at Youth Protection and Barriers to Abuse FAQs | Boy Scouts of America
Additional FAQ’s: General Health and Safety,
Updated 3/11/21 – :diamonds: indicates latest …
“Adult Supervision
Q: The Barriers to Abuse say that there must be two registered adults present for all Scouting activities and meetings. Does that include merit badge counseling? Fund-raising events?
A. Yes. However, the parent or legal guardian of the Scout may serve as the second adult. This parent or legal guardian does not have to be a registered leader.”

I believe the answer is “yes” to the above father related question for the following reasons:
· “Merit badge counseling” & “fund-raising events” are only two examples of “all Scouting activities and meetings”
· The continuing explanation including “ the ” parent is not specifically directed towards these 2 examples and on my read is generic enough to be applied to “all Scouting activities and meetings.
· The FAQ question says: “Does that include…”
· “ That ,” in this case, is " The Barriers to Abuse say that there must be two registered adults present for all Scouting activities and meetings.”
· The FAQ answer directly answers the question regarding the 2 activity examples.
· The FAQ answer also states " However , the parent or legal guardian of the Scout may serve as the second adult. " There is no specific reference to the 2 examples in this statement and the FAQ answer is commenting on the “ that ” of the FAQ question by using the word “ however ” to separate the answer from the 2 examples.

If the answer is “no,” I believe the following will be necessary:

  1. Rewrite the FAQ example to eliminate the double meaning.
  2. Clearly explain why these 2 activities are unique against all other scouting activities.
  3. I will have to turn female scouts away from an activity or cancel the activity altogether if no registered female adult leader is available.
    As a side consideration, the female scout’s mother has stated she would much rather have the father along than some random woman. I know this isn’t in the rules, but I thought it was an interesting perspective.

So sir, is the answer to, “Can the registered adult leader father of a female scout be credited towards youth protection supervision in place of an adult registered female leader at a scouting activity?” a yes, or a no?
Again, thank you for your time.
YIS,
Matt Lettrich

07/22/2021 EMAIL REPLY
Matt,

I’ve consulted with other Scout leaders on your question and concerns. I/we agree that the statement that “ two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over must be present for any activity involving female youth” was appropriate. I stand by this policy statement as it’s clear cut policy regarding this issue. I know that you want an immediate answer regarding a parent and his/her female child participating in the program and what appears to be conflicting statements between the FAQ and what is posted on the BSA youth protection website. I will address your question with the National Sea Scout Director, and I would encourage you to continue working with your local Council so that they can raise it with their immediate leadership. In the meantime, I would encourage your ship to recruit women who are excited about the program to serve as leaders on your ship. Take care,

( member ) National Sea Scout Committee

My conlusions:

  • The reply time was shorter than I expected. Nice.
  • I’ll be honest, the reply was not what I was hoping for.
    • My answer to the ‘FAQ answer’ was answered quoting the policy that the FAQ was supposed to clarify. I’m not sure I don’t think that my question was not answered. See, I can do it too.
    • “Clear cut” is used early discussing the female supervision policy and then acknowledged to be otherwise by “appears to be conflicting statements.”
    • This question is promised to be kicked up the chain, but I should start with my local council again. Is any Local Council going to do anything but kick it up to National? It’s a “National” level policy and it’s up to “National” to figure out what “National” really wants. If I was on the local council, that’s what I’d absolutely kick it up to “National.”
    • We can get around the issue by having more female adult leaders. We’ve got 3 already for two female scouts and this issue still lives.
  • The intent of the answer is clear enough. I cannot allow a father (registered or not) to supervise his daughter during an activity without a registered female adult leader present. We will, of course, proceed within this edict.
  • Overall: underwhelmed.

This concludes my pursuit of this subject.
YIS, Matt Lettrich

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Since we have an official answer from the BSA, I a closing this thread.

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