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Scouter’s Training Award for Cub Scouting - Tenure question

I have a leader who moved into my town 2+ years ago and (transferred their registration into) my pack. We signed her up as our Advancement Chair (MC), but the council registrar processed the transfer and kept her old pack’s Den Leader (DL) position for her in our pack. At recharter time six months later, we caught the error and corrected her registered position to MC.
The tenure requirement on the Scouter’s Training Award for Cub Scouting specifies that one must “Complete at least two years of tenure as a registered adult leader in a Cub Scout pack”. However, the council is rejecting our submission for her to receive the Scouter’s Training Award solely on the grounds that she did not complete 2 years as a Committee Member. (She completed all the required trainings and performance requirements; plus completed 2+ years as our pack’s Advancement Chair)
Is this right? Should the council have rejected the application?

@ChristopherRoy - I think this is based on registered positions. I will not even begin to go into my thoughts on adult awards.

The cumulative time she was registered in all positions in your unit should count if that adds up to 2 years.

Scouter’s Training Award for Cub Scout Leaders

Extract (reformated and emphasis added):

Tenure

  • Complete at least two years of tenure as a “registered adult leader” in a Cub Scout pack. (“online” or “facilitated” training)
  • Participate in at least one additional “supplemental”* or “advanced” training event at the “council”, “area, region”, or “national” level during the two years.
      *Contact your local council for supplemental training availability.

Training

  • Complete Cub Scout Leader Position Specific Training for your registered position(s)

My opinion: Note the “a” in the tenure requirement and the one or more posititions, “position(s)” in the training requirement.

Performance
Do the following during the tenure used for this award:

  • Participate in an annual pack planning meeting in each year.
  • Serve as a registered adult leader in a pack that achieves at least the Bronze level of Journey to Excellence in each year.
  • Give primary leadership in meeting at least one pack Journey to Excellence objective in each year

Version

Version 2, 2021-12-14-B DRAFT

Cub Scout pack registered leader positions

per the BSA registration guide available on the BSA national forms page

CUB SCOUTING PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS
Unit Requirements

  • Minimum leadership positions—CR, CC, CM, 2 MCs*, an LL, TL, DL, or WL**, and an LP or AP for each Lion or Tiger
  • Can have—CA, DA, WA, NM, PT, REU, 91U, 92U

This is wrong. Resubmit. Should could be either and still qualify. Now if she wasn’t registered? Legit reject. Registered? She deserves the award.

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She has to complete training for all positions used for tenure (DL & MC) the way I read the requirements, though.

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I agree with that interpretation. If she is using the DL tenure toward the two years, she has to complete DL training.

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Ooohhh. Good point! Yes.

To clarify, this leader has completed the Cub Scout Specific Training set for both Den Leader and Pack Committee, was an instructor and attendee at our Council’s last 2 University of Scouting events, and completed all the other training and performance requirements.
The only question is whether she should be denied the Scouter Training Award simply because (as council put it) she didn’t have 2 registered years tenure as a Committee Member (because the council registrar incorrectly processed her MC application 2.5 years ago as a DL application).

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I would say this is very incorrect. Especially since it sounds like they were registered at another council prior to being registered in your unit. That time counts as being registered. Nothing says it needs to be the same unit, or position in which they are registered.

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DL can earn the Scouter’s training award as long as they meet the criteria on the form. And nothing on the form says they need to be a member of the committee. They should wear the knot, and medal when appropriate, with pride as soon as the application can be reprocessed.

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Pardon my venting… but it sounds like you may be a kindred spirit.

I’ve found the tenure requirements and the interpretations of them by those above me to be incredibly vexing to say the least. We frequently don’t have enough volunteers to staff the all the positions we need (I know I’m not the only one who has seen CCs, CMs, ACMs, and committee members double-up as DLs).

But sure let’s tell someone they haven’t earned their knot because they were technically registered as the CC at the same time as they were doing everything else. In my mind, we ought to be giving them extra credit for making everything happen rather than shorting them on recognition.

Whew! Thanks for letting me release.

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@RyanTashma - well sort of a kindred spirit. I have been around far too many adult leaders who decided that their uniform should resemble a third world general with ribbons, medals etc. I honestly have no issue recognizing those who do their very best to support their units but the rest it seems are only interested in self gratification.

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GLT recognition guidance

LEADER TRAINING RECOGNITION

Recognizing our leaders for tenure and performance in their positions is an important part of the overall recognition of the value they are providing to Scouting. It is important for Scouting leadership, at all levels, to acknowledge service and recognize it in meaningful ways. This can be done formally and informally.

HOW RECOGNITION WORKS

Recognizing leaders with training awards is the responsibility of the council and district training committees. This responsibility is carried out within the policies set forth by the national committees. Final verification of the completion of the requirements for the various training awards is the responsibility of the district/council training committee. Verification for performance is certified by the unit committee chair, unless otherwise stated in the detailed information for the specific award. The Scouter or others acting on his or her behalf can track his or her progress on the Training Award Progress Record & Application form.

Links to detailed requirements for all training awards are provided in the Training for Adults section of https://www.scouting.org/training.

Tenure used to earn one key or award should not be used toward progress on another key or award unless otherwise noted in the specific award requirements. Approval for an award is the responsibility of the district/council training committee; however, the committee can authorize others to approve certain requirements. The local council is the final authority in verifying and approving all training recognition awards.

2021-12-14-C

The only reason I were the ribbons I have earned is to show the scouts that the adults have fun in scouting too. It is a rewarding experience for all involved and that is the only way I know to “show” it to the scouts, other than just being excited. Just like I am proud when my kids earn their rank I have had my kids tell me they are proud of me when I have earned a knot.

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@JohnGeiser - that I can agree with. I just wish my personal experience was different.

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Ditto here too. Total frustration with them and dealing with the “approvers” and the process. You would think that in a time when we need more scouts, units and leaders they would be very aggressive to award those doing the work but they do not. Take the William D Boyce new unit award as an example. You need 10 kids under the 2019 revision on signup night based on the documentation. Really? You can start a unit with 5, 4 with a waiver! Also, unless you do it yourself you are not getting “Founder” tabs.

You would think in this day in age with Scoutbook and the creation of units in it the process would have been automated!

~Napoléon Bonaparte
"Give me enough medals and I’ll win you any war”

I’ve been a scouter for over 21 years and NEVER received a knot due to this process. It relies on CC and Unit Commissioners knowing and doing their jobs and many do not. Automation is the only answer!

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