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Was emailed via several individuals all older programs are being terminated

Anyone have any further information?

Terminated, no. Age restricted, potentially. While not voted on by the BSA Executive Committee yet, the proposal from the Churchill project is that all Scouting stop at age 18. And that we create a National “Volunteer Corps” (no rank, no uniform) for 18-26 year olds. [Which are Rovers in most of the world - and the primary program volunteers.]

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When would you expect more info / announcements? After the June NEB / NAB meetings? It seems like enough was shared to put everyone in a tizzy without no details. (your detail, if not just a rumor, is about 2x the amount of info shared) :wink:

This came straight from the comments delivered by our new National Chairman, Dan Ownby. And yes, we should know more after they next meet (which I understand is early June).

I highly recommend you watch the address from the NAM General Session, Dan starts talking about 48:30 and I really think you should hear his complete address:


I head it, but I don’t think this part is in there “And that we create a National “Volunteer Corps” (no rank, no uniform) for 18-26 year olds.”

“National Volunteer Corps” is there (56:55 - 57:02). The rest is from conversations held during NAM with various leaders.

He also said these recommendations will be voted on by the National Executive Committee in early-June.

Not to be a Donnie Frowned, but most of what gets voted on does not generally get critically ground out before the vote.

Are they honestly prepared to lose 90k scouts and volunteers? Before they vote they may want to have a shortened program pamphlet out.

My phone rang this morning from three local officials wanting info as they cherish the Exploring Programs.

As someone on another board stated :slightly_frowning_face:

BSA National Procedure

Ready, Fire, Aim


How odd … the fun just gets started at age 18. As I milled around World Scout Jamboree, it was clearly the 20-somethings getting the most bang for their buck.

I have argued (and will continue to do so) that advancement to Eagle (as it is truly unique to the US) should be without age limitation, and advancement to First Class should be required for all direct-contact adult leaders.

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That’s what position-specific training and IOLS are for.


So, in the weekend IOLS course that your district provides, have all of your district’s graduates:

  • Lit a fire?
  • Completed a 1 mile compass course and measured big stuff from a distance using said compass?
  • Swam 100 yards?
  • Demonstrated a line rescue?
  • Recited, on their own, the points of safe swim defense and safety afloat?
  • Cooked meals … safely … and their buddies liked it?
  • Lashed together a camp gadget?
  • Tied a timber hitch? (No clue why SMs seem to forget that one.)
  • Identified plants, animals, poisonous and edible?
  • Demonstrated first aid?

And did that all to the satisfaction of their troop’s SPL/JASMs?

Which would you trust more to tell you if your adult is “all that” for your scouts, that rounded rectangle on his/her sleeve, or an oval on his/her chest?


I’m all for a Rover type program here in the United States.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say if those were pre-reqs to be a direct contact leader, we’d have a fraction of the direct contact leaders we have now…

It’s tough enough to get a full cadre of adult leaders that have completed unit-specific training and IOLS.

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But think of all the fun you would have doing the stuff scouts do!

I think the difficulty in getting people trained is the perception that training is “extra stuff that I don’t need to do the job I am already doing” instead of “stuff that I need to know to do the job right the first time” even if I know most of the stuff because I am doing the job.


Rover Scouts and senior scouting programs history

includes some BSA history:

8 Rovers in the United States

Alpha Phi Omega

In colleges it has existed since 1925. It is listed in the Scouting BSA handbooks. I am not sure why it is not listed in the Venturing and Sea Scout BSA program materials. The APO service program includes service to the community and nation.

The National Council of the BSA recognized Alpha Phi Omega as the National Honorary Scout Fraternity for BSA members in 1932.

BSA sponsors APO member participation in World Scout Moots. APO sponsors a APO service team at BSA National Jamborees. APO with the help of its chapters, recognizes Scouts who have achieved Scouting top awards (or “top ranks”) through its Scouting certificates program.

Duke of Edinburgh’s International Award

This award sheme appears to have a top age limit of 24.


Thank you!! I did not know the USA had a “Rover” program.

Everything I found on APO is they are not apart of BSA. APO is a Fraternity. Yes, they are recognized by BSA, but if a 18-26yr. old does not attend College after High School they are out. With Venturing and Sea Scout programs, we can at least keep the 18-21 yr. old’s.

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Qwazse, I agree! Firstly, many scouts turn 18 when they are still juniors in high school or midway through their senior year, so they are excluded from participating as a scout for their entire senior year unless they move to a venturing crew or register as adults.

Adult leaders should earn RANK as well as MERIT BADGES!! We can take all the training they give, but it’s only as your son goes through each rank from Lion on up that you really “know” the program. This would also make it MORE FUN for adults! And if adults are having fun, they’re much more likely to stick around after their children age out.

And us ladies who were Girl Scouts and are now BSA leaders would love to earn the emblems for our uniforms that the men wear but we never will be able to because we weren’t allowed to be Boy Scouts!

I suggest the BSA start a “Senior Scouts” program for those over 55 – we have time and money do donate, and love scouting and volunteering in the community. How many retired folks regret never finishing their Eagle project? Wouldn’t it be fun to spend your retirement earning Merit Badges? Much more fun than shuffleboard or bingo at the retirement community!

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Yes, APO is a collegiate student organization and has those limitations. APO is not limited nationally by age, but by student status.

Please define how you are using the term “Fraternity”. APO does not have “Frat Houses”. If my memory is correct, prior to the mid-1960s you had to be a prior or current Scout or Scouter to join APO. APO is also subject to Title IX and local state and college regulations pertaining to student organizations.

APO is not a Greek named social fraternity, It is also not a Greek named honor organization. Which means that APO chapters and colleges occasionally need to be reminded that APO is primarily a service and leadership development organization…

APO national bylaws (Spring 2019)
ACTIVE MEMBERSHIP. Active membership shall be conferred upon enrolled students who are in the fellowship of the principles of Alpha Phi Omega; who, to the satisfaction of their chapter, are so oriented; who have successfully completed a membership education program structured in accordance with the guidelines established in the National Pledging or New Member Standards and the membership policies of the Fraternity; and who are encouraged, but not required, by their chapter to be a registered member of any scout or youth service organization. …

Well, from my experience in college 30 years ago, and my son’s experience now, everyone on campuses considers APO a service-oriented fraternity. I haven’t met anyone that considered it anything else.