No, it’s not. The Advancement Team doesn’t treat it that way for Camping MB. They say that leaving early from a long-term camp doesn’t make it short-term. I am checking to see if OA sees it differently.
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That isn’t up to the advancement team, it is up to the camping merit badge counselor. Also, Camping MB says up to, not a minimum of 5 days. A minimum of 5 days is just that for the OA, a minimum of 5 days. You don’t need to check with anyone if 4 days counts as a minimum of 5.
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Chris Hunt of the Advancement Team, regarding Camping MB:
" I’ve heard feedback from parents with Scout in troops that don’t do very much camping. They can get in the long-term outing, but it takes a long time for their troop to get out on enough campouts to make up the other 14 nights. As a workaround they suggest they will send their son to summer camp, but then take him home after four nights so the experience will not count as a long-term camp. This doesn’t fulfill the requirement. The short-term campouts provide variety in both preparation and experience, and the Scouts are more likely to have to set up their own tent and take more responsibility for outdoor living skills. A long-term summer camp is still a long-term camp even if the Scout is there for only a portion of the time. It’s an entirely different adventure and usually doesn’t call for the same level of self-reliance required for a short term camp."
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@RyanEash - what is that post from ?
@RyanEash - so 2012… like yesterday
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And here, 2015, last updated 2019, same lines:
I don’t see anything else anywhere changing what this says.
The scout isn’t there 5 days unless they are there 5 days.
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That wasn’t me that said that. That was from the BSA Advancement Team.
OK folks, while this thread started out with a question on the OA Eligibility Report it has moved too far into policy which the BSA has said is not allowed on the forums.
We will be forced to close this thread if additional policy discussions occur. I am leaving it open for now in hopes that Ryan quickly gets an answer from the OA regarding the eligibility report.
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Thanks for posting the OA text. It sure seems that OA is agnostic as to the OP question. If the eligibility report can automatically downgrade a 4-night event to 3 nights, then there is no issue on their side. But it certainly does imply that long-term nights don’t count as short-term nights. But if the nights were in a long-term setting but not 5 nights, then the only thing they would count toward would be the NOAA Award segment total nights.
Now, the OP focuses on a data flag distinction between tent and cabin camping. This would make a difference for nights that would not qualify for Camping MB but would for OA eligibility, other than units omitting cabin/Adirondack nights altogether on their data entry. I don’t know how common that unit choice is but we were involved in a unit that tracked Summer camp that way when scouts were in an Adirondack provided and not the canvas tent provided. I suspect many units already handled that differentiation on their own, thus not needing the flag, expecting the Scout would have the responsibility of tracking their own nights.
Long story short, while a flag may have its uses, it is not necessary.
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That wouldn’t meet the requirement. It needs to be a campout of 3 days or less - not just count 3 days. There are other OA discussions about how the intent is that a scout has a number of different campouts with this unit so that weather and other factors ensure the troop knows the scout well.
4 nights is still considered short-term, just that only 3 of those 4 nights can count toward OA eligibility. See the FAQ, where OA considers anything less than the 5 consecutive nights as short-term:
" ** A “long-term camp” is one consisting of at least six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping. A “short-term camp” is anything less than that.*"
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Agreed. I stand corrected. I found this in the guide to elections as well.
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The requirement is for a council/ high adventure camping program ie Philmont, Sea base, summer camp etc. You can only count 1 camping event of this nature.so use the one with the most days ie a 12 night Philmont trip vs a 6 night summer camp.
Please review the OA published references for the requirements. We’re not supposed to be discussing policy interpretations, and the OA documentation makes clear what constitutes a long-term camp.
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We should close the thread. It makes me want to reply, but I shouldn’t. Can’t. Hold. Back.
