We’ve seen an issue where parents are marking off merit badge requirements for their youth. In one instance, it was done by a non-leader parent. In the other, it was done by a parent who was also a leader, but shouldn’t have any permissions to allow this.
Is this expected behavior? It seems like only counselors or leaders with the appropriate permissions should be able to do this. Am I missing something?
Is it only showing as “Completed” or is it showing “Counselor Approved” and/or "Leader Approved "?
Scouting America (via the SUAC) has long maintained that “Completed” means “ready for testing”. Thus, the scout or their connected parent has (at least historically) been able to mark both rank advancement and merit badges “Completed”.
It’s definitely just Completed.
I hadn’t heard that definition. It seems like a bit of stretch from the wording on the page, but if that what is intended, I understand. The wording really needs to be fixed if that is the intent. It’s confusing.
Yeah, I’m not personally a fan, and have made similar sorts of suggestions back to before then-BSA purchased it. My biggest pet peeve relative to that issue is that things show up as complete (e.g. badges appear on the display page) from the scout’s and parent’s perspective. So, then they don’t see why the scout isn’t being awarded the associated item. Given how long I’ve been shouting at the darkness, I suspect I’d be better served inventing a flashlight. :-P
Thanks, @CharleyHamilton. I love the flashlight comment!
@DavidParker7 - what word would you prefer instead on completed as that would also have to be changed in the guide to advancement as well.
Not all parents allow their Scouts to access Scoutbook. Scoutbook has always, since long before purchase by Scouting America, permitted Scouts or parents to mark requirements as Completed, indicating to the leaders and/or Merit Badge Counselors that the Scout has completed work on the requirement and is ready to be tested.
Scouting America has no plans to change this capability as it is the Scout and parent that “own” the data applying to the Scout, not the unit.
As stated above, completed simply means the Scout feels the work is done and is ready to be tested. It does not mean the Scout is done with the requirement or award as it still needs to be approved by a registered Leader and/or Merit Badge Counselor.
I have found that if I educate my Scouts and parents on how to use Scoutbook, especially parents who are also leaders, that the problems go away. My expectation is that the Scouts directly enter data into Scoutbook, but I defer to parents if they feel their Scouts are not yet mature enough to have their own my.scouting.org account since this requires having an e-mail address.
This is just like a Scout or parent making a mark in a physical Scout handbook. This is working as designed and intended.
Ready would be better than completed.
Thank you all for the replies. I understand the described intent and appreciate the explanations. Unfortunately, it is not intuitive and it is clearly causing confusion. To answer the question about what to change it to, if the intent is indeed that it is ready for test, then say that. Or, use “Ready” as a shortcut, as @The_Kernel suggests. If the GtA needs to be changed, then it should be.
I guess it is just more shouting in the darkness and I’m adding my own discordant voice to the cacophony!
Also, I know you folks are all volunteers and can’t force change, as you’ve made clear in many posts. Thank you for what you do and bearing the brunt of the feedback on things. You are appreciated.
I seriously doubt this will be changed. The word Complete has been used since Scoutbook was first written to track a local unit, long before it was purchased by Scouting America.
Ready is ambiguous. Ready for what? Keep in mind Scoutbook Plus is used by Pack, Troops, Ships, Crews and Posts. There is no testing in Cub Scouts so the term Ready is meaningless because the once the Scout has done his/her best as determined by the Scout’s parents or leaders, they are finished with the requirement.
The User Interface is unified across all programs so whatever word is used for one, needs to be used for all others. I suspect changing the word Complete to anything else at this point will cause more confusion than is caused by leaving it alone.
@DavidParker7- beyond that the word completed is used 105 times in the guide to advancement
I agree with all those who find the term “Completed” or “Complete” confusing. I agree that it should be used only by registered adult leaders and merit badge counselors after their testing. It should not be available for use by scouts or parents to indicate that they think the scout has done the required work and is ready to be tested. If a term different from “Ready” is sought, how about “Prepared”.
The Approved state says the Scout has been tested and passed. The flow is Complete, Approved and additionally for full Ranks, MBs and Awards, Awarded.
And again, Prepared makes no sense for Cub Scouts where there is no testing.
Frankly, I don’t think we’re going to move the ball either direction with semantic arguments. There are plenty of counter examples on all sides of the debate (e.g. for example in Scouts BSA MB requirements that can’t be “completed” except by talking to your counselor because they require a discussion with the counselor, SM conferences which can’t be completed without actually talking to the SM or designee, etc) that argue in favor of a different word.
At this stage, the answer really appears to be “Scouting America has decided that they are not making the requested change”. The rationale, while relevant, isn’t something that the SUAC can really impact because they don’t make that decision. National does, and SUAC has conveyed national’s position: “We want a single interface for advancement with no change in language between programs even if there is a functional difference between the programs in how advancement works.”
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