Seems like the 2 year clock needs to start again. I know those that, following the G2SS, did it at the waterfront at a camporee this spring.
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We have meeting this week. Will post when a resolution from meeting.
| WilliamsburgScouter
August 3 |
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Hi:
It has been a week. Any word @TimothyRogers or anyone?
Thanks.
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This is still being discussed as there are several parties involved - Outdoor Programs, Aquatics and Risk Management. I will post on the resolution as soon as we have a decision.
Thanks for the update.
If it helps, my own narrow question(s) are this:
On July 18, two of my leaders (I can provide BSA IDs) attended a BSA summer camp (happy to share off thread the name of the camp and aquatics director) at which they took two in-person courses (I have a photo of the cards): Safety Afloat Classroom (SA) and Safe Swim Defense Classroom (SSD). They were issued training cards signed by the aquatics director to this effect (Form 34224 for the SA)
- Is the Safety Afloat Classroom training they took on July 18 now considered invalid?
- If still valid, can the training be recorded into their training logs? This is less important than #1 (they have the physical cards, of course)
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Planning record management for possible local government variations
There are also occupational safety and disabled employee issues, as well as possible local government variations that need to be planned for.
Some local jurisdictions may require in-person training now or in the future. (c.f. the variations in youth protection training.)
2022-08-12-B
My opinion: records management and course catalog management are two different things. It the same control data file is being used for both functions the classroom course codes should have been marked with an expiration date, not removed.
2022-08-12-B
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@WilliamsburgScouter - You might try asking your council scout executive/CEO for an exception. I believe the local council is responsible for its own risk management.
1 - we do not know yet, since it the issue has been “kicked up” to BSA® national
2 - At current time the in-person class cannot be entered in the training record database (accessed via Training Manager).
We are still waiting on an answer from BSA national.
2022-08-12-D
The codes were never removed - just inactivated
| William Wells Bill_W
August 12 |
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TimothyRogers:
Because my.scouting calculates on on the SCO and the old training code was removed from the my.scouting tables. It has been that way for a couple of years as a requirement from risk management.
My opinion: records management and course catalog management are two different things. It the same control data file is being used for both functions the classroom course codes should have been marked with an expiration date, not removed.
2022-08-12-B
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Good morning:
I realize this is an edge case, but I do need to get some form of confirmation here. To reiterate:
- Sometime on or around July 18 Safety Afloat classroom was discontinued by ScoutingU
- On July 18, two of my leaders were at summer camp taking Safety Afloat Classroom (SA) and Safe Swim Defense Classroom (SSD).
- The next morning (July 19) I tried (as troop trainer) to log their training based on the signed cards they received from the aquatics director. SSD was fine, but SA was gone.
It now appears as if Safety Afloat Classroom (SA) was invalid from the start and the leaders need to take the online version.
If yes, Safety Afloat Classroom is retroactively void that doesn’t seem fair. They took the course at a time when they were told it was valid.
If no: then I or someone should be able to add it to their training record.
Thanks.
My apologies for not replying to this part of a previous post. Here are some of my observations:
- course title and code are two different things
- there are online and in-person courses.
- the “SCO” course code prefix is intended to be used to identify online training modules in the BSA learning center, https://training.scouting.org
- To confuse coding there is at least one in-person code used for an online course identification (youth protection). - I believe this was done to avoid computer program recoding costs.
- both online and in-person course codes are recorded in the training database viewed by the myScouting “training manager” tool. - some in-person course codes have been retired but are still in the training database for the historic record.
- to complicate coding there are online courses that are not part of the BSA learning center, http://training.scouting.org and that coded with non-SCO-codes.
2022-10-10-E
I honestly think you’re going to have the most success getting a clear answer on the policy issue (i.e. whether or not in-person training taken roughly concurrently with when the in-person training was obsoleted is valid or not) via your council, @WilliamsburgScouter. They have the “clout” to push this up the chain to national to get an official answer on the policy question, as well as the ability to submit a ticket to get the software fixed if the issue is an error in the implementation of the intent. For what it’s worth, I agree that it seems unreasonable to expect that scouters who took the in-person training in good faith retake an online course to replace that training. It seems particularly problematic to me since the obsolescence of the training seems to have been obscure to more than just the individuals taking the training.
Training Times - Fall 2022 - What’s New
Published October 2022,
https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Training-Times-Fall-Q3-2022-Final.pdf
Scouting U Releases Updated Safety Afloat Training
In collaboration with the BSA National Aquatics Subcommittee, Scouting U has released an updated version of “Safety Afloat” online training that is also mobile compatible. Since the inception of Scouting, learning to swim and engaging in aquatics activities such as boating and paddle sports have been core to the program. Safe Afloat training is required for any BSA unit who will participate in boating activities. This online training ensures that adult leaders are prepared to facilitate safe use of canoes, kayaks, rowboats, rafts, floating tubes, sailboats, motorboats (including waterskiing), and other small craft. To access the updated training, log onto my.Scouting.org and search the catalog in the BSA Learn Center for “Safety Afloat”. For additional information regarding BSA aquatics programs, please refer to the Guide to Safe Scouting and the BSA’s Aquatics Supervision Guide.
FAQs
Does Safety Afloat training have to be renewed?
Yes, adults supervising boating activities must have completed Safety Afloat training within the previous two years.
Do I need to take the new version of Safety Afloat training if my current training is not expired?
No, you can complete the updated version of Safety Afloat when your current certification expires.
Is Safety Afloat training available to take in person?
No, Safety Afloat is only available online. It is also mobile compatible.
2020-10-10-A
Fantastic. Has nothing to do with the question of whether scout leaders who took in-person classes over the summer, and in particular July 2022, are now running around with retroactively invalid training.
Again: my leaders (and I’ve spoken with other units) took these classes over the summer at various summer camps with the understanding that Safety Afloat Classroom was still valid. They have signed documents to this effect. But there’s no way to record it and there’s more than sufficient ambiguity as to whether or not that training was void ab initio or made so retroactively.
I give up. I consider this matter closed and resolved.
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This seems prudent in light of any communication or give and take. The cancelation of the in person training not being communicated is the root cause. Then to not include it in the faq when it came up here at least one other time is disappointing.
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What I find interesting is that what appears to be the new course was announced in the primary training news document in October 2022. That is why I posted it. Communications both before and after computer program updates appears to be part of the problem.
My opinion is that if BSA national caused the problem, they should fix it.
2020-10-10-A
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