scout book say do not use internet advanement 2.0 with scoutbook is not compatiable.
Scoutbook and Internet Advancement 2.0 both use the same database. The reason you shouldn’t use both is because there may be some unintended consequences (for example: recording advancements in IA 2.0 will mark them as Awarded in Scoutbook).
Maybe legacy web tools should be renamed if when a legacy web tool is updated, it will stay in the same spot. Just a thought.
I think perhaps the best name for all of the scoutnet items should be “Really outdated items that we can’t get rid of because way to many folks would cry themselves to death” OK… That is a bit to long…so legacy it is. But in a very realistic view those who have used web tools for scouting are most often used to accessing them from myscouting which predates my.scouting.org. At some point in time things need to move forward.
The thing is that some units have NOT moved to Scoutbook. My unit has no immediate plans to move to Scoutbook as we believe that the features of Troopmaster are better.
BSA has long had the intention of moving all advancement to Scoutbook. IA2 represents the shift while providing a mechanism for other software to push in completed advancement.
I am glad this has been done as I really didn’t like the shared password of IA1. As a software developer I think that the BSA is moving in the right general direction. There are certainly things I think could be better, but the same could be said of the product I happen to work on.
You could use Scoutbook the same way you use IA2. Limited fashion and used only for the complete badge vs. the incremental requirements.So, the could have achieved the same thing and only have one platform.
Since I have been irritated by the dilution of limited resources, I have thought too much about this. The thinking has lead me to read between the lines. Maybe correctly, maybe not. They have said that IA2 represents a new platform and methodology then the old one that is currently used in Scoutbook. The fact that there is duplication with Scoutbook and IA2 may allow them to stress test and build the platform without switching everyone over to the new platform all at once. There is nothing like real users to learn the weaknesses.
So, maybe the duplication is on purpose. In any event, this may be my last rant about IA2. Thanks for bearing with me.
See my comments above in Why Internet Advancement 2.0? which describe some of the reasoning behind the separate platforms. IA2 is the start of the migration of Scoutbook to modern technology.
I was on vacation so late to this discussion, but it sounds like Ed’s saying that Scoutbook will eventually become the Legacy tool and IA2 will eventually replace it. I can live with that, so long as management uses the capabilities of the IA2 technologies, the ability to hired skilled programmers and good development practices to build the new functionality out rapidly to achieve its ultimate goal of Scouting Advancement and troop management dominance. (that last part is tongue-in-cheek). But seriously, please don’t make us wait too long to get off Scoutbook.
As a side-note, as an Oracle and Apex (aka Oracle Application Express) developer for the past 18 years, I slightly resent the comment that it’s no longer supportable. Apex itself is a full-stack tool that I’ve used to develop powerful web apps. But I recognize it’s not the “hot new thing”.
Stewart - not exactly as you stated. Scoutbook is not going away but rather moving off of its current platform of classic ASP. As far as scoutnet is concerned it is a non-supported platform and hardware.
I assume if you don’t update supported platforms version or hardware, it becomes unsupported. It could be “unsupported” due to version and upkeep neglect.
Matthew- in a corporate or enterprise environment hardware and operating systems reach end of life and as such support for said systems is no longer part of a support agreement but now become a per diem charge.
Better yet is to realize that scoutnet is 20 years old. And not only that you have components of said hardware that can no longer be replaced. I as a matter of fact am involved in upgrading internal and external switches and servers that at three years or more are end of life.
Oh, I agree. I was responding to Stewart who was taking “offense” that Oracle and the other being called “unsupported”. If you “ride the wave” of upgrades and upgrade every 3-5 years, and keep your hardware and software versions current, you keep it going. If you “set it and forget it” for 20 years, the upgrade, while technical possible becomes unfeasible and doesn’t get you the results you want. The effort is huge and the end result just isn’t good.
Working in a 114 year old papermill, I have experienced both the “ride the wave” upgrade of systems and the “set it and forget it for 30+ year” upgrade. Both are painful.
Matt - my apologies. But yes it is easy to say that this is simple, or why change things but as both of us realize sometimes it is not the best decision. I have been caught in that a few times. My best example is my Compaq server that had a controller failure and the on site HP engineer just gave me a look.
I missed your reply while I was on vacation.
I got huffy about Stephen’s comment about Scoutnet on Oracle . Having re-read the original post, I realize he was simply saying that no one had been enhancing that product, so it went stale and isn’t supported. Not that the Oracle platform itself is unsupportable
My comment was ill-considered and unnecessary. I apologize for it.
@StewartStryker - no need to apologize. I fully understand your sentiments. What we can hope for is a far better end product now that things are migrating a new and more stable platform than scoutnet has been lately.
We started using Scoutbook on February 1 when we founded our Troop, because it was my understanding that this would be THE internet advancement tool that BSA is using. It has been challenging to get parents and Scouts fully on board and I was going to make a push in the fall to get the stragglers set up. However, now I am reading this thread and I am wondering if that is the best decision. I am not interested in pushing hard to get everyone onto a system that will be obsolete soon or if we will then have to migrate everyone over to a different system.
If IA 2.0 is what we are REALLY going to be using, I would rather switch to that before pushing everyone on board.
I am not completely computer illiterate, I have been able to help the parents who want help to get them set up on Scoutbook, but I don’t understand the technical conversations about APIs or operating systems, which means I don’t fully follow what is being said in this thread.
Bottom line, if I stick with Scoutbook, am I going to have to transition my whole Troop to a different interface within 3-5 years?
Internet Advancement is intended for use by units that do not use Scoutbook. It writes to the Scoutbook database. If you do not have another advancement tracking program, Scoutbook is recommended by the BSA. Scoutbook will continue to be the advancement tracking software of the BSA.
Thanks for clarifying this.
In your reply from May 19th, you are saying that if we are using Scoutbook, we will not need IA2. Some parts of Scoutbook seen to be forcing me to use IA2 even as soon as two days after the previous post was written. What gives?
The log term plan is to move Scoutbook functionality currently written in an obsolete system to a modern programming stack. That stack is the basis of Internet Advancement. As functions are migrated to that stack, the user will be automatically redirected to that new function.
Units do not need to use the advancement functions of Internet Advancement if they are using Scoutbook for advancement.
Scoutbook and Internet Advancement share the Scoutbook database, so writing advancement final completions in either platform will be visible in the other. Internet Advancement does not support advancement or award requirements. Requirements can only be marked complete in Scoutbook.