Bugs in the training reports

Curious how other people are handling the bugs in the training report logic. Namely that completion of older versions of the Scoutmaster Specific training don’t necessarily flag a leader as trained, and the training reports an individual can run for themselves show all the new class as ‘Incomplete.’

Having looked at the data, this appears to be the result of old courses not mapping properly to new courses in the reporting system (i.e. if leaders completed the old courses, their personal training requirement report lists the new classes and marks them as ‘incomplete’ and gives this list to the Scoutmaster when they run the overall training report.)

There are other courses this impacts, but the main issue for PASMs seems to be the following courses where the ‘for Scouts BSA’ was dropped from the course name and the course number was thus recoded.

Partial list of courses causing issues.

New Course Old Course
SCO_471: Advancement SCO_430: Advancement for Scouts BSA
SCO_472: Aims and Methods of Scouts BSA SCO_431: Aims and Methods of Scouts BSA Old
SCO_473: Annual Troop Program Planning SCO_432: Annual Troop Program Planning for Scouts BSA
SCO_474: Introduction to Merit Badges SCO_435: Introduction to Merit Badges for Scouts BSA
SCO_475: Outdoor Ethics SCO_437: Outdoor Ethics for Scouts BSA
SCO_476: Outdoor Programs SCO_438: Outdoor Programs for Scouts BSA
SCO_477: Patrol Leaders Council Meeting SCO_439: Patrol Leaders Council Meeting for Scouts BSA
SCO_478: Patrol Method SCO_440: Patrol Method for Scouts BSA
SCO_479: Role of the Unit Key 3 SCO_442: Role of the Unit Key 3 for Scouts BSA
SCO_480: Roles of Scoutmaster and SPL SCO_441: Roles of Scoutmaster and SPL for Scouts BSA
SCO_481: Scouting Organization SCO_443: Scouting Organization for Scouts BSA
SCO_482: Troop Committee SCO_444: Troop Committee for Scouts BSA
SCO_482: Troop Committee SCO_445: Troop Committee Meetings for Scouts BSA
SCO_484: Troop Meeting SCO_446: Troop Meeting for Scouts BSA
SCO_485: Scouts BSA Uniforms SCO_447: Uniforms for Scouts BSA

Are these scouters showing as “No” in the “Trained” column of the report, or just as having the new classes on the “To Do” list? There was an announcement quite a while ago now (at least it feels like a long time ago) that anyone who had not completed the full position-trained curriculum for their current position would have to start over when the new courses were released. That’s been pretty standard for a while now, IIRC.

You are correct that some of the new courses show up as not having been taken (and therefore on the to-do list) for scouters who are “Trained”, but didn’t take the new courses. However, I and other scouters who completed the full curriculum before the recent changes show a “Yes” in the “Trained” column. This is what is served in the unit training report (for me for example, but comparable for other Trained scouters in the unit):

To my knowledge, it was not the intent to have completions of prior versions “map” onto the newer versions. Either the whole curriculum (at the time) was complete, or the new curriculum had to be completed in its entirely.

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Thank you for that update on policy - that helps (potentially) explain part of what we are seeing. In terms of showing ‘No’ in the trained column - I am not the Scoutmaster so just going off his report plus the individual reports for myself and a friend who shared her data. I am listed as ‘yes’ and she is listed as ‘no’, although we completed all our training at the same time (in 2019) so I would assume she was a yes at some point in the past and that has gone away.

Separate issue is the training requirements report I run for myself. It shows up as ‘trained’ but yet lists all the new courses as Incomplete, so it’s hard to extract from that if there are courses I actually do need to take (i.e. like renewing my hazardous weather module.)

And can you provide the exact instructions you used to generate the report you screenshot? The report from my Scoutmaster only showed incomplete classes, and he was complaining that to see completions you had to go to each individual profile, so I know he would be very interested in having access to the data columns you show.

In my.scouting, under my unit in the left side drop-down menu,

  • I went to the Training Manager interface,
  • then clicked on the “Trained Leaders” portion of the pie chart.

I can get to the same report (including both Trained and Not Trained scouters) by going to the Trained Leader Report under the left-side drop-down menu or by clicking the “Report” button below the pie chart.

Also, for an individual, a Key 3 or Key 3 delegate can search individual training completions by going to the Training Manager interface at my.scouting, select Add/Search, choose Search Training, search on the person’s name, select the person’s name which activates the “View Training” option above their name, then where it says “Viewing Completions” you can click and change that to “Positions Trained”, which will reflect all of the positions for which the individual is trained, as well as when the Trained requirements were completed.

All of the scouters in my unit who completed their current position training prior to (that I checked, anyway) show up as “Yes” under trained, and most have stuff on the “To Do” list which is new.

I agree that breaking out Hazardous Weather, for example, would be helpful since it’s hard to tell if you don’t know the code whether that’s out of date or not.

Thank you.

Question - do you know why the ‘CSV (Details)’ export button exports a different report than what is shown on the screen?

Good question. I typically haven’t used that option before. That said, the one I generated for my unit seems to be the same as what I’m seeing on screen (barring the colors).

How are you getting to that CSV export option that’s giving different information?

Just the ‘CSV (details)’ button. It lists only the incomplete courses without showing what is completed.

Right, but which path to the report? I was wondering if there’s an underlying path-dependency that’s causing the issue.

Left menu > Trained Leader Report > ‘CSV (Details)’ button.

I have limited roles in my.scouting at this point, but the data I produced matches the output I received from our scoutmaster, so my guess is it’s in the report generation logic and that is disconnected from the logic actually building the display graph on the page.

I also followed up with my friend whose training status is ‘No’, and our best guess is that she saw the ‘needs completion’ courses without noticing that she was already trained, started the new versions of the courses online, and that removed her trained status.

Hunh. Assuming that you first selected your unit, I used the same path, and my CSV output matches the output on screen. Column “Q” in the CSV (when imported to Excel) shows the Yes/No on .

I’ve started the new training courses (I’m actually partway through the new SM/ASM series), so it seems like that shouldn’t be an issue.

Was there a change/lapse in her registered position along the way?

I guess I should have asked one more question on the front end: which browser(s) are y’all using? I know Safari has been kinda iffy in the past at getting some stuff to work on the scouting.org domain. I assume you’re already tried the “clear your cache” and “force a reload” steps already? I know IA2 has a bad habit of caching stuff that fouls things after a change. I’m not sure about my.scouting, though.

Column Q is the Trained column (headers start on row 9.)

The issue is in the following columns that start at S. The downloaded information is only the incomplete courses (columns list: Incomplete Mandatory; Incomplete Classroom; Incomplete Online) while the online columns (Mandatory Training; Classroom Training; Online Training) include both ‘COMPLETED’ and ‘TO DO’ sections.

They online columns are also in a slightly different order and the online column has a full name vs individual components.

Best guess is that there’s an upstream data collection pipeline and then at some point the stream diverges and the final processing is different for the online vs. export datasets (vs just exporting the actual table from the page). My assumption is that the data would be the same, just presented / subset differently, though I haven’t actually confirmed that.

Another item that no one mentioned. If someone took the older courses but starts the newer courses it cancels out the previous course and they have to complete the newer path. I took the 1999 version of SM Leader. When I got back involved I was trained but it listed the courses. Once I started the new online courses the trained went away until I completed them and took IOLS>

The break in registration/change of position is actually the trigger, rather than starting the new courses. As I mentioned, I’ve started new courses, but still show as Trained, since I have been continuously registered in that position since I completed the training. If I moved from ASM to committee member, for example, I expect to be required to complete the new committee training curriculum, even though I completed the Troop Committee Challenge years ago.

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