The 1/1/25 update to the my.scouting merit badge hub has removed all previous versions of merit badge requirements and says: " The previous version of the Merit Badge requirements can be found in Scoutbook". I have looked and can’t find a generic page or topic that provides directions. I’m hoping such a resource can be created (and publicized…I can help with that). It would need to provide directions for Scouts, merit badge counselors, parents, leaders and interested parties, and indicate whether and how this information might be found (or not) by such parties in the mobile app or in the web interface. I am an adult leader not registered as a merit badge counselor and have been unable to find previous versions of requirements in general reports or in looking at individual Scout advancement records…I see the years of the requirements at the top of e.g. a Scout’s record for Coin Collecting “2012-2025”, indicating the period of validity of the requirements the Scout earned, but no way to navigate to specific earlier versions. Appreciate the help!
A secondary issue…what does the second year mean in “2012-2025”? Is it just the current year? The printed requirements underneath this presumably date to 2012 and do not include the updates from e.g. 2024. Is the second year just to indicate that the requirements from 2012 can be valid up to the current time if the Scout started them before the update following 2021?
Thanks!
@MichaelMerritt2
I’ll answer your 2nd question first.
In your example, 2012-2025 just means this is the current version of the MB. While there may have been updates in wording since 2012, they were not material to what the Scout needs to do. For example, there were many MBs updated this year that simply changed BSA or Boy Scouts of America to Scouting America. In these cases we did not cause a new “version” to be generated. In other cases, a Scout that completed the “old” requirement may have also completed the “new” requirement so we didn’t need to generate a new version. For example, if the requirement went from Do X to Do X or Y a new version was not needed because the Scout who already did X completed the requirement.
As for previous versions, the only way to see these is to look at a Scout that is working on the previous version of the MB in Scoutbook.
To try to expand - in legacy Scoutbook - if you go to a started (but not finished) Merit Badge - you can change versions.
This work on old versions is an old hang on from when they actually printed new pamphlets when they changed requirements, that might not have happened for more than a decade.
@MichaelMerritt2 what URL exactly are you seeing that?
@DonovanMcNeil
The statement is on the individual MB pages. For example:
Sorry, your explanation doesn’t comport with the facts in this case. E.g. Coin Collection requirement 3:
Scoutbook individual scout record labelled 2012-2025: "3. Explain the grading terms Uncirculated, Extremely Fine, Very Fine, Fine, Very Good, Good, and Poor. Show five different grade examples of the same coin type. Explain the term proof and why it is not a grade. Tell what encapsulated coins are. "
2024 Scouts BSA Requirements: “3. Describe three different ways to store a collection, and the benefits, drawbacks, and cost of each method.”
Maybe your explanation is right but Coin Collecting in Scoutbook is woefully out of date?
Given your note about the limitations on using Scoutbook to find previous requirements, I will ask National to update the page to say something like: “Scouts and their counselors who began working on previous versions of these requirements in Scoutbook will still be able to see them (and mark them completed).”
@MichaelMerritt2 - this is coin collecting in the scoutbook reference section:
and from a scout record:
Here is what I see in the Scout’s record that I thought Ed indicated meant the requirements hadn’t changed?
PS Where is the Reference section…in the app or online…and can any user see it or only certain roles?
Oh…you mean right in front of my face! Thanks.
I see where the confusion comes from. As Donovan noted, once an overall MB is completed, then the listed requirements “lock”, even if updates are made later. At least that’s what I’ve seen based on my observations. The years appear to be listed as a closed interval (i.e. inclusive of the endpoint) on the “old” end and as an open interval (i.e. excludes the endpoint) on the “new” end. That is, [2012-2025)
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No parens of any type in the display. This scout earned the badge in 2017, so I expect the listed requirements in the display were current then and were “locked”. And the 2025 in the current display seems to mean…it’s 2025.
@MichaelMerritt2 - the screen shots I posted are the current 2025 requirements such that if a scout started it today that would be the requirements that will show up.
I agree that the notation is not correct mathematically speaking. I was trying to explain in notation what I meant in the written words. It’s my engineering bias to want to do both.
I also agree that it’s unclear that the intent is an open interval, but based on my observations for prior notation on other MBs, that seems to be how it gets displayed whether it’s clear that’s the intent or not.
I definitely think that removing the prior requirements from the Scouting America MB website, while still having a structure that permits scouts to complete the prior requirements if they started under them is at best unwieldy and at worst unworkable. Unfortunately, the folks who are here can’t fix the website problem, and can only communicate the concern about lack of clarity back to the developers who may or may not get approval or time/budget to make a change.
I don’t really agree with Donovan that the “prior requirements” is exclusively down to the updating of MB pamphlets. From a practical perspective, if a scout has completed 9/10 requirements for a MB and the organization materially changes the requirements while they are in process, then it creates an insurmountable impediment to completion in many cases. It’s more an issue of fairness to have at least some degree of permitted overlap.
On a couple of points here:
- The important issue is that the current requirements are correct, I’m sorry I suggested otherwise.
- I hope the directions on the hub will be clarified so people won’t hunt for what they can’t see, but that’s not a Scoutbook issue.
- The policy issue isn’t appropriate for this forum.
- The implementation of the current policy seems correct…with the minor issue of those bizarre dates. Even the “open interval” argument fails, since there were substantively new requirements in 2024. So “2012-2025” for requirements substantively updated in 2024 just seems confusing. It’s a corner case, maybe worth noting for whenever the logic for generating them is due for an update. I would suggest “2012-2017”, indicating that the requirements in effect in 2012 were finished and signed off in 2017.
And…as always…thanks for the support!
@MichaelMerritt2
Since SB shows all versions that are supported, if you see for example 2012, 2017 and 2022-2025 means 2012-2016, 2017-2021 and 2022-2025. The reason for -2025 is to indicate this is the current version. If there is not a new version next year, the date will automatically change to -2026
It was done this way to save space on small screens.
This is deja vu all over again. In the screen shot I shared, it is the OLD version that is headed with “2012-2025”. It shows 2012 requirements earned in 2017, which were subsequently updated meaningfully in 2024. Given those facts, I respectfully suggest the “2012-2025” is confusing…as our multiple trips around the block and multiple theories and explanations supports.
Looks like there may be a bug once the version is marked complete. When I look at an in-progress Coin Collecting, it shows 2012, 2024 and 2025. When I complete it, it shows 2012-2025. I’ll let the developers know.
Ed
yeah I think I have seen that
