Is it possible to indicate zero camping nights when adding a new “Camping” type of activity?
I ask, as every time I enter “3 days” and “0 nights”, it automatically overwrites the “0” and places a “2” in the field when saving. This happens in both the “Basic” and “Advanced” entry modes. Note the numbers in this example are for a 3 day / 2 night weekend Troop camping event.
There are 2 scenarios where we need this functionality for our 3 day / 2 night weekend Troop camping events:
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A boy (or leader) attends during the day, but does not spend the night. We would like to track that he attended during the day(s), but not of the night(s).
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We have an event where tenting is optional. e.g. a combined Cub Scout event where some Scouts sleep indoors, while others tent. We would like to track that they attended during the day, but zero nights since they did not sleep in a tent.
I know the “night” value is counted towards the camping requirements, and assume the Scout is sleeping in a tent (not indoors).
Please advise, and thanks!
Todd Lucas
UPDATED:
After further research, here is more information to repeat the problem …
The problem presents itself when the camping activity item exists, and the Days or Nights value is greater than zero and is edited / changed TO a value of zero. This applies to changing the entry via either of the “Basic” or “Advanced” entry modes, and applies to both “Scout” and “Leader” type of entries.
Note that the “0” zero entry is saved if a NEW item is created and saved with the zero entry.
The only way I have found around this is to remove the Scout (or Leader) from the camping activity item, save the changes, then re-edit the item and add the Scout (or Leader) back with the zero entry.
The end game for our Troop is to utilize the “Nights” value to track the number of nights the Scout (or Leader) spent in a tent. This information will then be used to track Camping MB requirements.
User Interface Details
Browser: Google Chrome, Version 97.0.4692.71 (Official Build) (64-bit)
O/S: Windows 7 (64-bit)
Also, just in case it was unclear, there is no automatic linkage between the logs and any of the merit badge or rank requirements. Any “credit” there has to be manually assigned.
The values are used in calculating the OA Eligibility report, however.
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Thanks Stephen. I am just adding adults at this point, as I’m still learning how to do some of this. I went through the tutorial that you referenced, and did as it suggested.
Note that regardless of whether I use the “Basic” or “Advanced” entry methods, it still overwrites the zero “night” value with a “2”. This is reflected in the “Nights” summary total value, and the “2” appears in the drop-down details data for the selected camping activity item.
What am I missing / doing wrong?
Prior to edit:
After the edit:
Stephen - Note that changing the “2” value to a “1” value updates the activity item as expected (e.g. in my example changes the nights summary value from 88 to 87, and has a “1” value when I go to re-edit the activity item). The problem appears when I try to use a “0” (zero) value - it always gets overridden with the max number based on the date range entered.
As a computer web programmer for 15+ years, I would bet that the programming code behind the scenes is detecting a zero (or even null) value and automatically inserting the max value of days / nights based upon the entered date range. To me that is a bug, as a zero value should be allowed (IMHO) in either the day or night value field.
Thoughts?
A new observation …
It appears to record the “0” zero Night value correctly when initially ADDING the activity item. The problem appears to be when an existing item is EDITED and updates are made where a zero is entered in the Day or Night entry field.
After Item Initially Saved with Nights = 0:
After Item Edited and Saved with Nights = 1:
After Item Edited and Saved with Nights = 0 (original “1” value overwrites “0” value):
Note that both Basic and Advanced values were changed to “0” value.
Sorry Stephen, did not mean to offend you and won’t trouble you further.
I honestly believe this behavior to be a bug. Is there a forum (or webmaster) to report these kinds of issues to? If so, please point me in that direction and I will take it from there.
Thanks - Todd
This is probably the right spot to report it, @ToddLucas. It’s just that none of the SUAC (Scoutbook User Advisory Council) has hit the thread yet. The only other route to report buggy behavior for the IA2 interface features is via the council Scoutbook support folks, whose skill and access levels may vary a lot.
Ok, thanks. I’ll just sit tight and wait to see what happens.
Thanks!
@ZacharyMcCarty, since I saw you on dealing with another activity logs issue, do you have a sec to take a look at this?
Since the camping log is supposed to track traditional camping, not day camps, I suspect it has been purposely coded so that 0 is not a valid number of nights. I’ll ask the developers but because they are still working on recharter, I do not expect an answer quickly.
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@CharleyHamilton looks like @edavignon has the question asked, which is good. The post I replied to specifically deals with reports and goes to separate developers than the Internet Advancement log interface.
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It should allow for zero nights of camping. If it does not, then this is a bug.
There are different situations where a Scout might have 0 nights of camping. Day camps are just one example.
Hi @JenniferOlinger, @edavignon, @ZacharyMcCarty, @CharleyHamilton - thanks for the replies, and the assistance!
The problem presents itself when the camping activity item exists, and the Days or Nights value is greater than zero and is edited / changed TO a value of zero. This applies to changing the entry via either of the “Basic” or “Advanced” entry modes, and applies to both “Scout” and “Leader” type of entries.
Note that the “0” zero entry is saved if a NEW item is created and saved with the zero entry.
The only way I have found around this is to remove the Scout (or Leader) from the camping activity item, save the changes, then re-edit the item and add the Scout (or Leader) back with the zero entry.
The end game for our Troop is to utilize the “Nights” value to track the number of nights the Scout (or Leader) spent in a tent. This information will then be used to track Camping MB requirements.
Thanks - Todd
@ToddLucas
Thank you for the additional details.
Be careful with only using nights to track nights in a tent. Some BSA awards allow cabin camping as well as tent camping so tracking those nights is important.
What I do is prefix an event name with Tent:, Cabin: etc to distinguish the nights. Yes, I sometimes have to manually add up the nights but it keeps the overall record for total nights correct.
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I would also assume, that sleeping in a Adirondack, on a hammock or just under the stars, would also count.
Sounds like a new feature request for activities would be some “counts toward” check boxes. In this case — Counts toward “tent” camping for rank. Counts toward Camping merit badge nights, counts toward camping MB 9b adventure requirement. Counts as camping MB long term camp nights. And I agree that there should be a way to change a scout from the default of two nights to zero nights without all the gymnastics. I guess the other option is to create a one day event and credit all your non camping scouts to that event instead.
Thanks @JanellBunger-Spiecha - the one day event was what one of our other Troop Advancement Chair’s was doing in the past, but my thought was why duplicate the effort when we could just use zero nights to indicate tent camping. It works for our needs, but I don’t want to be the “odd one out”. The thought is that if the value allows a zero entry when initially saved, it should allow a zero entry when it’s updated from a non-zero value. I like the idea of check boxes, but that would require some extra work on the developers part, versus a (hopefully) simple bug fix.
