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Organization Security Manager - Key Three Delegates

I am unable to add a second Key Three Delegate in the Organization Security Manager. The green plus button does not appear after selecting the Key 3 Delegate field (see screenshot).

I am following the instructions at https://help.scoutbook.scouting.org/knowledge-base/assigning-a-key-3-delegate-or-other-position-in-my-scouting/
The instructions indicate up to 3 people can be assigned as a delegates. I am a key three member, assigned the role of Scoutmaster if that helps.

Windows 10 Home version 10.0.19041
Microsoft Edge 90.0.818.42

I think the system may limit it to one delegate per member of the Key 3 (i.e. SM can assign one, CC can assign one, COR can assign one). I’ll have to ask our CC if he can assign a second one…

I’ve noticed this too, and that’s been my thought. There’s a dedicated COR delegate too for approving adult applications too. It’s supposed to change any day now to the more flexible Position Manager so I haven’t concerned myself with trying to figure it out fully.

@NathanKendall - I suspect this is by design for each of the k3 to designate their respective alternate. But obviously the k3 should be in communication and agreement on delegates.

I am pretty sure I was able to appoint more than 1 Key 3 Delegate (K3D) in the past, and K3D’s can also designate K3D’s for the unit. I don’t think they are limited to one per K3 individual.

It might be a browser issue or a bug.

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@JenniferOlinger - I remember that discussion and for as long as I recall on any browser I see one line for delegate in OSM as the unit Committee Chair. I see the other functional roles which I can assign except for the COR delegate.

I think it has changed over the years, and I’m not sure what the answer is. Right now, my unit has 4, but I don’t know how that happened.

@JenniferOlinger - totally get that, but relaying what I have seen over a number of years. But I am curious to see what the COR and SM & CM see.

I personally added two key 3 delegates last year. But O wouldn’t be surprised if there are limitations related to total number of functional roles.

Key-3 Delegate References

December 2019: Scoutbook Knowledgebase Help

Assigning a Key 3 Delegate or other position in my.Scouting (myScouting)
https://help.scoutbook.scouting.org/knowledge-base/assigning-a-key-3-delegate-or-other-position-in-my-scouting/

June 2019: Who is a Key 3 delegate from this list of positions? (Scouting Forums)

https://discussions.scouting.org/t/who-is-a-key-3-delegate-from-this-list-of-positions/121023

undated: *my.Scouting - Organization Security Manager

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/idg/Security_Manager.pdf

July 1984: my.Scouting - Organization Security Manager FAQ

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/idg/Security_Manager_FAQs.pdf

Q: How many people can be assigned the role of Key 3 Delegate?
A: Up to three people can be assigned the role of Key 3 Delegate and they must also occupy a role that requires a background check be completed. For a list of Key 3 Delegate eligible roles, click on the information button next to Functional Position in the Organization Security Manager tool

Q: Can a Key 3 Delegate grant additional members the Key 3 Delegate role?
A: No, Key 3 Delegate can only assign other available functional roles and has the ability to update certain member profile information, add training, print membership cards, etc., similar administrative tasks as a Key 3. However, some responsibilities cannot be delegated, such as accepting youth member or adult leaders. NOTE: Additional functional roles will be available as needed and as new tools are
developed

There clearly exists a mismatch between the documentation and actual practice. I too was a CC and a COR with different units for many years and have also been able to assign all “3” key 3 delegates in each unit. This was a couple of years back, but I’m quite sure of this.

More recently (this year, 2021) I’m currently registered as an Asst. Council Commissioner and also a key 3 delegate for our council. When we received a new Council Commissioner, it took some time for his approvals and his registration to completely process. During this interim period I (as a Key 3 delegate) was able to assign this new person (registered as a Council Committee member) to be a key 3 delegate as well. This allowed him system access to the MST features.
After his registration as a Council Commissioner was complete, and officially a member of the key 3, I removed him from the key 3 delegate position.

I believe that because of the upcoming changes to OSM (and the new position manager) There are some updates to restrictions going on in the background as we speak. One possible example of this is the newer, recently added “COR delegate” position, which may have revealed some of the unintended “back door” access (user features) that clearly exist in the system.

I’m for taking a wait-and-see attitude until the new position manager is complete and properly debugged. After that, maybe the documentation will be closer to actual use.

By the way, all of these changes going on lately are not that easy to implement (speaking from experience) I applaud the work of everyone on the team.

I am the tech scouting geek in my unit and district. For my unit I have 4 key people and I listed them all. I am registered as a ASM and Key 3 delegate. My SM and CC are not computer savvy and depend on me just to do what is needed to fix the problems.

I did notice today that there is a plus icon above the existing k3 delegate. The problem may be that this add link is not always present. I will keep an eye on that.

I would assert that the add link should always be present. The fact that it was missing for a time may indicate that updates are being applied to the system, in preparation for the new “Position Manager”. And with that, the removal of “Organization Security Manager” altogether.

We were informed that it would roll out by the end of the month. I spoke with a member of the CTFG yesterday via Zoom and he said he believed it would be ready sooner than that, possibly this week.

Exciting times we live in! :smiley:

OK, I can’t resist.
This week IS the end of the month :grinning:

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ALL feedback is appreciated. :+1:
Any insights on the topic?

One thing that has lately stymied people trying to add key three delegates or other functional roles, their name does not immediately show after being added. It takes 24 hours before they show in My.Scouting in the list. This may hopefully be resolved with the eminent release of position manager.

Position Manager should resolve this.

I agree, the 24 hour delay interferes with my need for instant gratification.

A slightly more frustrating issue I’ve noticed is when removing someone from a functional role is even when selecting a date over 120 days in the past, it does not always remove them. It’s possible that the time extensions that were mentioned a couple of months ago were to have an effect on these functional role expirations.

However, I am wondering if the new Position Manager will also use the “drag and drop” method on the “Functional” position tab, as it will on the “Registered” position tab?
I’ve only seen examples of the “Registered” tab.
If it does use the drag and drop method, do we still enter expire dates for the functional positions?
Also will the new Position Manager also work for the functional roles AT THE DISTRICT LEVEL?
Will the District key 3 be able to change District level “Registered” roles? (i.e. District committee member to Unit Commissioner, etc.)
Will access to this tool be the same as before?