ScoutBook is duplicating Merit Badge counselors on Council Upload

Scoutbook Scoutbook Bugs
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@KenTodd One that I have noticed is Communication, which comes out as Communications in one of the systems.

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I just looked at the Excel(r) macro that is used to convert the two ScoutNET reports into the format needed by the MBC upload. There are no MB translations in the macro. The names used in ScoutNET match the names used by the import in Scoutbook.

23

ADMS which is a troop manager product does have some issues with MB names

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Automated District Management System (ADMS) is a product of Troopmaster Software.

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I appreciate the discussion here
I am preparing the first upload file for our council. I note several questions below, welcome pointers answers or just sympathy:

NOTE ADDED 5/12/2020: The Scoutbook Team has updated the upload documentation to address these issues.

  1. Upload documentation: The 7/15/19 upload pdf says the latest version is in RESOURCE DIRECTORY at help.scoutbook.com. No search term I could think of at that url got me to the document or to a resource directory. Anyone have a link or useful search term?

  2. The example csv file and graphic in the upload pdf omit the required Zip field. Does it matter where it goes among the other fields?

  3. The Units field is (inexplicably) ignored. Other optional fields (Phone, City, State) are
ignored? Included as traps to create duplicate records? Sold to online trolls? Questioning minds want to know.

  4. Based on the discussion up to now, when I do the second upload
should I populate or clear the Districts field? What about the new records? (I know, if I am confused it means I am up to date.)

1 Like
26

The unit field is ignored because we don’t want MBCs defaulting go unit only. If the district column is filled in new MBCs will default to that district for their listing preference.

The address, phone number, zip is used in the matching algorithm. If the BSA Member ID does not match with an adult in Scoutbook, the other fields are used to improve the match.

The district field is only used when an MBC is created. Subsequent uploads with that individual in the file ignores the field.

27

That seems like an issue. We frequently have MBCs move around the council, and end up in different districts as a result. Worse yet, our district names change a lot (or at least far more frequently than I would have expected before I got involved). To change someone’s availability at the council level (for someone, for example, who doesn’t use Scoutbook), would the council admin have to upload the list excluding everyone whose availability was changed (i.e. force end those positions), then re-upload the same list with those people added back in with their new visibility “set” by having something (or not) in the district field.

It seems like the right solution is not to ignore, per se, any of the fields (for the purposes of upload), and to add a VISIBILITY field to indicate the availability of the MBC (U = unit, D = district, C = council, W = worldwide). The software may or may not use the data in a given field, depending on the VISIBILITY value. For VISIBILITY = U, it would read a non-comma-delimited (e.g. semicolon) list of unit(s) to set visibility. For VISIBILITY = D, it would only read the district field and set that as the MBC’s availability. For VISIBILITY = C, it would read the council field, and set availability accordingly. For VISIBILITY = W, it would still need (presumably) to read the council field to determine who is uploading the MBC, but would set the MBC’s visibility to worldwide (or whatever it’s called these days).

I’m curious what led to the decision to manage visibility the way it’s being managed. Is it tied to an output format from a particular existing database software? Since the file would have to be edited anyway to avoid inadvertently limiting visibility to the district level, as well as to correct the inevitable errors that exist form having two different databases talking to one another, how much more difficult is it to add a single field/column to the end of each record in the CSV file. In the absence of the last field, the behavior could default to the current approach.

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The only place listing preference is stored is Scoutbook. Since it is a field the MBC can change, we cannot let it be modified by a new upload, otherwise the MBC would need to reset it every time the file was uploaded. The process of creating the file needs to be as easy as possible which is why we created a spreadsheet template that takes 2 reports dm from ScoutNET and produces the upload file for Scoutbook. In a council where the MBCs and MBs are stored in ScoutNET, a registrar can quickly produce the file for Scoutbook.

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That’s interesting. In our council, I have to tell the council what my visibility is going to be. If I want ot change it, I’m supposed to tell them.

Certainly no argument there. The more difficult anything is made, the less likely any user will want to do it.

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Charley,

Go to My Dashboard → Administration → My Account → My Positions. Click on your MBC position. From there you can set your listing preference and availability. Set as desired then click the I agree to be an MBC check box and click Update.

In my Council, all MBCs must agree to be counselors for the entire Council or worldwide. They do not allow MBCs to restrict who they will council to Unit(s) or District(s).

31

Some personal observations as someone who has been uploading the klist for a significant amount of time. I upload all my lists without the district field filled in. In the welcome to new MBC message I advise the councilor preference is set to all council and they need to log in and set there preferences, check the I agree field and verify that there MBs and other info is correct. This is not something super onerous and it assures the most accurate listing possible.

Ron

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Sorry. I realized that what I wrote wasn’t clear. I meant “the council requires us to declare to them whether we will serve at the unit, district or council-wide level”, not that I have to have them set it for me. I was aware of the toggle.

Regrettably, I’m still waiting for my council to re-upload our MBC list. Their upload last year broke my position (as well as those for several others). I (and they) appear on the council list when I talk to council, but not in Scoutbook.

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There is a field in scoutnet for unit only and that can print on a report the problem is since the MBC is a district position it does not necessarily know which unit.

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Fair point, @RonFedele. I was just trying to understand the thought process that went into selecting the current procedure over something that seemed, based on how I understand my council handles things, to be more efficient.

Sadly, it’s hard enough getting folks just in my unit to keep their district settings current (we’ve had three names in ~5 years). It seemed like, if the MBC registration data already lists the district, and my council already collects the preferred “visibility”, then it could be automated to avoid having folks who don’t (and often in my experience won’t) use Scoutbook at least show up properly when a leader searches the MBC list in Scoutbook.

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Charley,

As Ron pointed out, ScoutNET/Akela, which is the official person database of the BSA, does not have a way to store which units a MBC wishes to counsel nor does it have a way to list one or more districts an MBC wishes to counsel. ScoutNET/Akela does have a field to list which MBs and MBC counsels. Because of this, the preferred process for creating the MBC list for Scoutbook is to export the data from ScoutNET in 2 reports then using an Excel(r) spreadsheet, copy the two reports to the first two worksheets and run a macro that generates the list to be uploaded.

Personally, I wish more Councils had a policy like mine in that they require all MBCs to work with any Scouts from the Council and not restrict their work to a single unit or district. This is what leads many unit leaders to think their Scouts can only work with MBCs from their unit and a lack of MBCs to work with some Scouts on some MBs.

36

Thanks for the new discussion and attention to some of my points! A couple of follow ups:

  1. Any chance of getting the documentation updated
and available?
  2. I believe the Guide to Advancement insists that Counselors may restrict themselves to units, districts or councils, which is why Scoutbook permits them to manage this setting themselves once their position is created. So our Council has a policy of “encouraging” them to work at least district wide, but we are not empowered to require it.
  3. I didn’t see an answer to whether the order of fields in the upload file is important.
    THANKS AGAIN
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The documentation is linked on the Manage Approved Merit Badge Counselor List page that Council Admins have access to. The page will be restored as part of today’s maintenance.

The Guide to Advancement says the Council Advancement Committee must approve all Merit Badge Counselors. In my council, the committee will not approve any MBC that indicates they will only work with a single unit or district. If a prospective MBC turns in an application indicating they will only work with a single unit, the Council Advancement Committee contacts the individual, explains the policy, and allows them to amend or withdraw the application. There is no requirement in the Guide to Advancement that a Council accept every individual that applies to be a MBC.

The csv file that the Excel(r) macro produces from the ScoutNET reports puts the fields in the order below. I believe the order is not important as the import uses the heading labels to find the data.

  1. BSA Member ID
  2. First Name
  3. Last Name
  4. Address
  5. City
  6. State
  7. Zip
  8. Phone
  9. Email
  10. Gender
  11. Merit Badges
  12. Units
  13. Districts

The Merit Badges data is enclosed in quotes and individual MBs separated by columns. For example:
“Citizenship in the Community, Citizenship in the Nation”

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Ed,

Thanks for the direct contact.

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EdAvignon, Thanks. Your last few posts here contain very useful info about how ScoutBook treats initial and subsequent uploads of MBC. I hope this type of information will be included in the ScoutBook documentation, especially for Councils that are uploading the MBC list for the first time. This type of info would have helped me avoid several problems when I got started on uploading a Council MBC list two weeks ago.

On another thread I asked about how ScoutBook MemberIDs are assigned and related to ScoutNet memberIDs, and what is the best way to resolve the issue ScoutBook creates a duplicate member record in ScoutNet with a different MemberID. “Mismatched Member IDs between ScoutBook and ScoutNet”. Hope you can respond to that.

And thanks for your help.

40

Two quick points


  1. The Excel “Save as csv” will put quotes around field entries that have commas in them. (Such as the Merit Badges and Districts field.)
  2. GTA 7.0.2.3 Unit Counselor Lists “Units may establish their own lists of counselors, who may or may not opt to work with youth in other units.” I (and the GTA, and Ed) advise against such restriction, but it is a right expressly granted to the counselor.